Sim Racing Design

Originally Posted by ayrwolf

The Chase has only been in effect for 7 seasons. For one driver no matter who it is to win 5 championships in a row shows that NASCAR's idea to generate excitement by having it's version of a playoff is a failure. As in other sports when you have total domination by one team or one person you will have fan base dropping off. We are not stuck with the Chase any more than we were stuck with the old points system. Some serious tweaking is due.

I disagree. Not too long ago Jeff Gordon was dominating the sport. Things come and go in all sports, in the late 90's the Yankees dominated the MLB, now, the Yankees and Phillies are both givens to be good, but other than that, there are lots of unknowns. The fact that Johnson and Knaus are dominating in such a competitive era is amazing, and one of, if not the single greatest accomplishment in NASCAR history.

And also, the championship race this year was absolutely thrilling. Clearly, the entire Hendrick organization was off somewhat this year, and I couldn't wait for Homestead the entire week leading up to it. It just so happens that Jimmie made a comeback, and in historical fashion, being the first to come from behind with one race left to win it.

Originally Posted by labontefanboy

I disagree. Not too long ago Jeff Gordon was dominating the sport. Things come and go in all sports, in the late 90's the Yankees dominated the MLB, now, the Yankees and Phillies are both givens to be good, but other than that, there are lots of unknowns. The fact that Johnson and Knaus are dominating in such a competitive era is amazing, and one of, if not the single greatest accomplishment in NASCAR history. And also, the championship race this year was absolutely thrilling. Clearly, the entire Hendrick organization was off somewhat this year, and I couldn't wait for Homestead the entire week leading up to it. It just so happens that Jimmie made a comeback, and in historical fashion, being the first to come from behind with one race left to win it.

The last race was exciting, however, not a lot of NASCAR fans are quite happy with the fact that Jimmie won, again, because a predictable result could make the whole Chase boring, and the whole season boring.

Also, another hole I see in the chase, (IMO) is that Jimmie Johnson can afford to not try as hard during the regular season, and he's not really dominating as much as it seems.

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SRD Pick 'Em Stats: 4 wins (2009 Pocono 500, 2010 Auto Club 500, 2010 Food City 500, 2010 IRWIN Tools Night Race) Highest effort: 925 (2009 Pepsi 500) Best Points Finish: 2nd (2010)

*rolls eyes* The chase is the standard until it gets changed, if ever, and the 48 team has it figured out, period.

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2013 SRD Cup Infineon winner. 2012 SRD Indianapolis 300 Indycar winner. 2012 SRD Gateway 200 Indycar winner. The Dominator.
www.hooperracing.freeforums.org

Those car flats are as ****** up as a soup sandwich. Back to the drawing board. - Matt O'Reilly

old system
1988 24 points Bill E
1989 12 points rusty
1990 26 points Dale
1991 195 points dale
1992 10 points Alan K.
1993 80 points Dale
1994 494 points Dale this was a blow out for sure
1995 34 Jeff Gordon
1996 37 Terry Labonte
1997 14 Jeff Gordon
1998 364 Jeff Gordon
1999 201 Dale Jarrett
2000 265 Bobby Labonte
2001 349 Jeff Gordon
2002 38 Tony Stewart
2003 90 Matt Kenseth
Chase years
2004 8 Kurt Busch
2005 35 Tony Stewart
2006 56 Jimmie Johnson
2007 77 Jimmie Johnson
2008 69 Jimmie Johnson
2009 141 Jimmie Johnson
2010 39 Jimmie Johnson

so how is a blow out once and a while worse than one driver dominating the last 5 years. na$car kept changing the rules till they got the results they wanted simple as that

and when did winning a racing championship become about sand baggin till the last 10 races. Racing has alway been about consistancy running good every week.

now they give 10 bonus points to the race winner maybe the should deduct points for dnfs MR Johnson had 4 so if he lost 10 for each thats 40 denny had 2 dnfs so thats -20 points = kevin wins and since he scored more points than any one else this season it would only be right

and yes NA$car is dieing look at the stands and any race they are maybe 2/3rds full 5 years ago they were packed standing room only so sorry to say they are dieing. the chase is a joke and the same cookie cutter tracks are what is wrecking this sport that I have loved when I was a young boy and after this years mockery is why I watched my last race!!!!

Bottom line is, as long as that brainless retard Brian France is in charge, the Chase is here to stay, whether we like it or not.

Originally Posted by TTR_Falcon

and when did winning a racing championship become about sand baggin till the last 10 races. Racing has alway been about consistancy running good every week.

Well...I wouldn't call being the in the top 12 drivers of 43 (I know there is more...but for argument sake) sand-bagging. And the 48 team uses those 26 races not only to get in the top 12...and really you have to be more like top 8 to contend..but to tweak things for the chase, that's why you see the 48 team do things at chase tracks to make sure they run well when they get there for the chase.

Fact is when there wasn't a chase there was belly-aching, and there will be belly-aching from whatever format there is....

As NASCAR dying (the proper spelling), you fail to factor in the economy in the equation. All the major sports are suffering..more so NASCAR because they are more sponsor driven than other major sports, so NASCAR is getting a double whammy from workers who lose jobs/cut hours/pay and sponsors who cannot pay big sponsor bucks like 5 years ago.

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www.hooperracing.freeforums.org

Those car flats are as ****** up as a soup sandwich. Back to the drawing board. - Matt O'Reilly

Originally Posted by canadienhits

Well...I wouldn't call being the in the top 12 drivers of 43 (I know there is more...but for argument sake) sand-bagging. And the 48 team uses those 26 races not only to get in the top 12...and really you have to be more like top 8 to contend..

Only about 20 drivers have any shot at the championship regardless (the other eight being Mark Martin, Brian Vickers, David Reutimann, Ryan Newman, Jamie McMurray, Kasey Kahne, Juan Pablo Montoya, and Martin Truex. Jr, if that), so I'd say it would be. Also, when all of the chases started:

2004: Kurt Busch was 7th in the standings, 293 points behind the leader, Jeff Gordon.
During the chase, he only earned 46 more points than Jeff did.

2005: Tony Stewart had a 185-point lead over 2nd place, Greg Biffle.
During the chase, Tony earned 30 more points than Greg did.

2006: Jimmie Johnson was 2nd in the standings, 57 points behind the leader, Matt Kenseth.
During the chase, Jimmie earned 61 more points than Matt did.

2007: Jimmie Johnson was 8th in the standings, 401 points behind the leader, Jeff Gordon.
During the chase, Jimmie earned just 57 more points than Jeff did.

2008: Jimmie Johnson was 3rd in the standings, 302 points behind the leader, Kyle Busch.
During the chase, Jimmie earned 79 more points than Carl did, and 528 more than Kyle did (the #18 had an obscene slump for whatever reason).

2009: Jimmie Johnson was 3rd in the standings, 278 points behind the leader, Tony Stewart.
During the chase, Jimmie earned 333 more points than Tony and 159 more than Jeff.


2010: Jimmie Johnson was 6th in the standings, 306 points behind the leader, Kevin Harvick.
During the chase, Jimmie earned only ELEVEN more points than Kevin did. In that span, Kevin earned 28 more points than Denny did, and still lost to the #11.


It's quite clear that the chase gives little benefit for being good during the main season, so drivers aren't going to try, except for people like Kevin Harvick, Carl Edwards, Matt Kenseth, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch, Jeff Gordon, and [in 2004] Dale Earnhardt Jr., who actually took it seriously.

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2004: Jeff Gordon [5] 2005: Tony Stewart [2] 2006: Matt Kenseth [2] 2007: Jeff Gordon [6] 2008: Carl Edwards 2009: Jimmie Johnson 2010: Kevin Harvick 2011: Carl Edwards [2] 2012: Brad Keselowski

Originally Posted by celticfang

Imagine the NFL without a playoff. Would that work? No, because a playoff's been there since 1970.

Which is why I said that 50 years from now, no one's going to give a flying crap about the old system. If anything, they'll wonder what we were smoking thinking the old system that consistently crowned a champion before the final race started was the best system.

Originally Posted by celticfang

And a game 7 winner may not always be the legit champion. 1957 for instance. Yankees were favored over Braves. Braves won out. Would you say the Braves weren't legit champions? Because people did then.

...and they were just as wrong as the people who call Jimmie Johnson an illegitimate champion today.

Originally Posted by celticfang

MotoGP, F1, ALMS, Grand-Am, Indycar (CART especially did) all do. Moot point. Also non auto racing sports, MLS, NLL, MLL.

MotoGP and F1 have no competition in their mostly European arenas.

Of the ones that are based in the USA - Grand-Am, Indycar, MLS, NLL, MLL - none of them make anywhere close to as much money as NASCAR. That's my point.

Originally Posted by ayrwolf

NASCAR is unique, you can not compare it to other sports

Sure you can, but it requires being open-minded and aware of reality. I'm not really reading that from the anti-Chase crowd.

Originally Posted by JeffJordan

Matt, records from other major sports don't actually represent how good the team is. It gives a good idea based on it, but the records can be disputed because no team has the same schedule.

True, but the same can be said about Nascar drivers' points standings. Often times teams earn less points than they would have had they not had freak malfunctions or gotten caught up in others' wrecks. When that happens, other teams earn more points than they otherwise would have. Same sort of problem.

Originally Posted by JeffJordan

Distorting the record of the driver over that season in the Chase just seems like a crime to me. For example, the Giants did not have the same schedule as any other team, and thus, the wins were behind in the regular season, but while playing what teams had proven to be the best, they won the championship.

So, like the Giants, it can be easily said that while racing when the pressure was on to prove who was the absolute best, Jimmie Johnson & the 48 team won the championship. Where's the crime in that? I really don't see it.

I'm convinced that a lot of the Chase haters could be appeased simply by banning Jimmie Johnson from the Chase for at least one year, guaranteeing that a different champion could be crowned. Call me cynical, but I think many, if not all, would be in favor of that.

Originally Posted by JeffJordan

The last race was exciting, however, not a lot of NASCAR fans are quite happy with the fact that Jimmie won, again, because a predictable result could make the whole Chase boring, and the whole season boring.

This is a perfect illustration that having the Chase was a good move and necessary, because a predictable result was consistently the result of the old points system. If a predictable Chase result is bad because it's boring, then we should never think about restoring the old points system ever.

Originally Posted by TTR_Falcon

and yes NA$car is dieing look at the stands and any race they are maybe 2/3rds full 5 years ago they were packed standing room only so sorry to say they are dieing. the chase is a joke and the same cookie cutter tracks are what is wrecking this sport that I have loved when I was a young boy and after this years mockery is why I watched my last race!!!!

Uh oh. Nascar lost an allegedly 36 year old fan who can't be bothered to use punctuation or basic sentence structure. I'm sure you're taking so much money out of the sport that you'll bankrupt it single-handedly.

Originally Posted by canadienhits

Fact is when there wasn't a chase there was belly-aching, and there will be belly-aching from whatever format there is....

Right, and the belly-aching was how boring the season would almost always end. Apart from 1992, every single year was a snooze fest. The last race was simply a formality that ultimately meant nothing in terms of the championship.

Fans who are anti-Chase do not understand, or are unwilling to accept the realities of sanctioning a major sport in the 21st century.

__________________

Forever 28

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

Which is why I said that 50 years from now, no one's going to give a flying crap about the old system. If anything, they'll wonder what we were smoking thinking the old system that consistently crowned a champion before the final race started was the best system.

I disagree, because the chase is not comparable to a NFL playoff as all 12 drivers constantly go up against each other and have other teams interfering. If anything, they'll wonder what NASCAR was smoking when a champion can be worse in every stat than the other drivers they were up against, and this even happened in the very first chase season. In fact, the chasepion that year was outclassed in EVERY important stat by not one, not two, but THREE drivers:

Kurt Busch---------: 3 wins, 10 top 5s, 21 top 10s, 12.5 Average Finish, 746 laps led
Jimmie Johnson--: 8 wins, 20 top 5s, 23 top 10s, 12.1 Average Finish, 1312 laps led
Jeff Gordon--------: 5 wins, 16 top 5s, 25 top 10s, 11.4 Average Finish, 1237 laps led
Dale Earnhardt Jr.: 6 wins, 16 top 5s, 21 top 10s, 12.1 Average Finish, 1131 laps led

As if by "coincidence", these three drivers would have beaten him under the old system.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

...and they were just as wrong as the people who call Jimmie Johnson an illegitimate champion today.

No, they were more wrong. The Yankees lost directly to the Braves in 1-vs-1s, you can not compare Ball-sport playoffs to racing "playoffs", in the latter, there will always be an inherent advantage to a specific set of drivers since (UNLIKE in ball sports) the tracks are all different configurations. All FIVE of JJ's best tracks are in the chase, and only one of his five worst is aswell. JJ is not an illegitimate champion, he's an illegitimate five-time consecutive champion.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

MotoGP and F1 have no competition in their mostly European arenas.

That's because Stock Car Racing tried and failed there.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

Of the ones that are based in the USA - Grand-Am, Indycar, MLS, NLL, MLL - none of them make anywhere close to as much money as NASCAR. That's my point.

Let's see:

NASCAR: 1948-Now (62 years)
NLL: 1987-Now (23 years)
MLS: 1993-Now (17 years)
IndyCar: 1996-Now (14 years)
Grand-Am: 2000-Now (10 years)
MLL: 2001-Now (9 years)

NASCAR has been around for three-times the amount of time of the others have, besides, comparing Lacrosse to any non-Olympic sport is almost always going to result in Lacrosse losing. :twitcy:

Also, it doesn't help that IndyCar has direct competition not only with NASCAR, but Formula 1 aswell, but I'm still sure that IndyCar is NASCAR's biggest threat, as it will almost always play #2 [at most] to Formula 1, for more reasons than one . . . . . . .

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

Sure you can, but it requires being open-minded and aware of reality. I'm not really reading that from the anti-Chase crowd.

Well, it's coming off as the same way for the pro-Chase crowd too . . . . .

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

True, but the same can be said about Nascar drivers' points standings. Often times teams earn less points than they would have had they not had freak malfunctions or gotten caught up in others' wrecks. When that happens, other teams earn more points than they otherwise would have. Same sort of problem.

Except that they are still more important in NASCAR. You can't expect to be outside the top6 best and be a legitimate threat for the title in other racing sports, especially if your numbers don't compare in the slightest.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

So, like the Giants, it can be easily said that while racing when the pressure was on to prove who was the absolute best, Jimmie Johnson & the 48 team won the championship. Where's the crime in that? I really don't see it.

The difference is that you go one-on-one in MLB, not NASCAR, the chase doesn't prove who is the absolute best, it proves who is the luckiest. And also, Jimmie wouldn't have even won under the 2004 chase design this year, much less the old system. That is another reason why the chase is so bad, it keeps freakin' changing every two-three seasons.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

I'm convinced that a lot of the Chase haters could be appeased simply by banning Jimmie Johnson from the Chase for at least one year, guaranteeing that a different champion could be crowned. Call me cynical, but I think many, if not all, would be in favor of that.

False, I'd still hate it because we'd have chases like 2004, where the victor wasn't the best. 2005 was going to be Tony either way so I didn't mind that at all.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

This is a perfect illustration that having the Chase was a good move and necessary, because a predictable result was consistently the result of the old points system. If a predictable Chase result is bad because it's boring, then we should never think about restoring the old points system ever.

I don't understand that logic at all, especially since most of the old-points system seasons ended just as close under the old system, in fact, from 1988-2003, 10 points seasons were closer than 2009, 8 were closer than 2006-2009, and 4 were closer than all of the chases except 2004. Let's not forget that 2009's chase was almost clinched before the last race and that at least two of the chase seasons would have been closer without the chase. And you're telling me that the old system was a predictable result when the best man usually doesn't win because of the chase? :twitcy:

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

Uh oh. Nascar lost an allegedly 36 year old fan who can't be bothered to use punctuation or basic sentence structure. I'm sure you're taking so much money out of the sport that you'll bankrupt it single-handedly.

There are thousands of comments about people boycotting NASCAR for either IndyCar, F1, or nothing at all. He's not going to be alone, especially since only about 10% of people watching sports will comment on the internet.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

Right, and the belly-aching was how boring the season would almost always end. Apart from 1992, every single year was a snooze fest. The last race was simply a formality that ultimately meant nothing in terms of the championship.

1992 was the only close season for you? Ok, that's just complete, unresearched, biased bashing:

In 1988:
-Heading into the final race:
1st Bill Elliott
2nd Rusty Wallace -78

-After the final race:
1st Bill Elliot (11th)
2nd Rusty Wallace -24 (Won and led the most laps)

If Bill had placed 20th, he would have lost the championship, that's a close race.

In 1989:

-Heading into the final race:
1st Rusty Wallace
2nd Mark Martin -78
3rd Dale Earnhardt -79

-After the final race:
1st Rusty Wallace (15th)
2nd Dale Earnhardt -12 (Won and led the most laps)
3rd Mark Martin -173 (30th, Engine Failure)

Ooh, how boring, Rusty almost lost the championship and there is no excitement in that, nope, none at all.

In 1990:

-Heading into the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Mark Martin -6

-After the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt (3rd, led several laps)
2nd Mark Martin -26 (6th)

A 6-point difference heading into the final race? Where's the excitement in that? Gee, I wonder . . . . .

In 1991:
-After race 19 of 19 (ten races to go):
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Ricky Rudd -69
3rd Davey Allison -137
4th Ernie Irvan -154

-After race 24 of 29 (five races to go):
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Ricky Rudd -59
3rd Ernie Irvan -182
4th Dave Allison -299

-Heading into the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Davey Allison -156
3rd Ricky Rudd -165

-After the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt (5th, led several laps)
2nd Ricky Rudd -195 (11th)
3rd Davey Allison (17th, led several laps, but ended up 4 laps down)

Sure it was clinched by starting, but that happens all the time, heck it pretty much happened during the 2009 chase aswell. Also, it wasn't really that boring though in 1991, because Ricky Rudd was pretty close with five races to go.


In 1992:

-Heading into the final race:
1st Davey Allison
2nd Alan Kulwicki -30
3rd Bill Elliott -40
4th Harry Gant -97
5th Kyle Petty -98
6th Mark Martin -103

-After the final race:
1st Alan Kulwicki (2nd, led the most laps, by only ONE over Bill)
2nd Bill Elliott -10 (1st, led a lot of laps)
3rd Davey Allison -63 (27th, led a few laps, but ended up 43 laps down after being in a wreck)
4th Harry Gant -123 (13th, 4 laps down)
5th Kyle Petty -133 (16th, 8 laps down)
6th Mark Martin -191 (32nd, led several laps, but had an engine failure)

SIX DRIVERS had a shot at the championship in the finale, that has yet to happen during the chase. PERIOD.

In 1993:
-After race 25 of 30 (5 races to go):
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Rusty Wallace -82

-Heading into the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Rusty Wallace -126

-After the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt (10th, led a few laps)
2nd Rusty Wallace -80 (Won, led the most laps)

Sure, Dale was most likely going to win anyway, but that doesn't mean it was clinched, Rusty came close with five races to go aswell.

In 1994:
-After race 26 of 31 (5 races to go):
1st Dale Earnhardt
2nd Rusty Wallace -217
3rd Mark Martin -427

-After the final race:
1st Dale Earnhardt (2nd, led several laps)
2nd Mark Martin -444 (Won, led the most laps)
3rd Rusty Wallace -487 (32nd, 65 laps down)

Obviously a no-contest scenario, but during the last five races, Dale laid down the hammer even harder even though he had a powerful lead, going from 200+ points to 400+ points in just five races.

In 1995:

-After race 26 of 31 (five races to go):
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Dale Earnhardt -275


-Heading into the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Dale Earnhardt -147

-After the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon (32nd, led a lap, but ended up 14 laps down)
2nd Dale Earnhardt -34 (Won, and led the most laps)

Another one that was all-but-clinched before the finale, but even then, it almost completely unraveled for Jeff, if he had wrecked before he led that lap, he may have just aswell lost the championship. Of course, that's not what happened though. Yes, Jeff basically laid back in the last five races, but that's not always the case.

In 1996:

-Heading into the final race:
1st Terry LaBonte
2nd Jeff Gordon -47
3rd Dale Jarrett -99

-After the final race:
1st Terry LaBonte (6th, led several laps)
2nd Jeff Gordon -37 (3rd, led several laps)
3rd Dale Jarrett -89 (2nd, led several laps)

I don't know about you, but that looks like a close race to me.

In 1997:


-Heading into the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Dale Jarrett -77
3rd Mark Martin -87

-After the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon (17th, 3 laps down)
2nd Dale Jarrett -14 (2nd, led a few laps)
3rd Mark Martin -29 (3rd, led several laps)

3rd place was closer than 2nd place was this year, Jeff had to be careful in this race, as 2nd and 3rd were well within striking distance.

In 1998:
-After race 23 of 33 (10 races to go)
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Mark Martin -67

-Heading into race 28 of 33 (5 races to go)
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Mark Martin -174


-Heading into the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Mark Martin -344

-After the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon (Won, and led the most laps)
2nd Mark Martin -364 (3rd)

Even with that humongous lead (which would have clinched two races in advance under the chase system anyway), he still went strong, winning 3 of the last 4 races, and managed to more-than-double his lead in the final five.

In 1999:
-After race 29 of 34 (5 to go):
1st Dale Jarrett
2nd Bobby LaBonte -222

-Heading into the final race:
1st Dale Jarrett
2nd Bobby LaBonte -211

-After the final race:
1st Dale Jarrett (2nd, led several laps)
2nd Bobby LaBonte -201 (Won, led the most laps)

Sure, Dale's lead was insurmountable, but he surely didn't lay back.

In 2000:

-After race 29 of 34 (5 to go):
1st Bobby LaBonte
2nd Jeff Burton -252
Dale Earnhardt -258

-Heading into the final race:
1st Bobby LaBonte
2nd Jeff Burton -261
3rd Dale Earnhardt -280

-After the final race:
1st Bobby LaBonte (5th, led a few laps)
2nd Dale Earnhardt -265 (2nd, led several laps)
3rd Jeff Burton -294 (12th)

Another dominating season, but there wasn't any sandbagging. Sure, you might call it a "snooze fest", but the drivers gave it there all, even the leader.

In 2001:
-After race 31 of 36 (5 races to go)
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Ricky Rudd -395
3rd Tony Stewart -469
4th Sterling Marlin -472

-Heading into the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon
2nd Tony Stewart -376
3rd Ricky Rudd -402
4th Sterling Marlin -418

-After the final race:
1st Jeff Gordon (15th, led the most laps [257, compared to the second most which was 21], but ended up a lap down)
2nd Tony Stewart -349 (5th)
3rd Sterling Marlin -371 (2nd, led several laps)
4th Ricky Rudd -406 (13th)

The final "classic points" year that involved an insurmountable lead. Now, it's undeniable this was going to be the #24's 4th championship, but he did have the most poles, wins, top 5s, top 10s, most laps led, and highest average finish.

In 2002:

-After race 26 of 36 (10 to go):
1st Sterling Marlin
2nd Mark Martin -9
3rd Jimmie Johnson -72
4th Jeff Gordon -82
5th Tony Stewart -118
6th Rusty Wallace -146

-After race 29 of 36 (7 to go):
1st Jimmie Johnson
2nd Mark Martin -11
3rd Tony Stewart -36
4th Jeff Gordon -109
5th Sterling Marlin -121
6th Rusty Wallace -137

-After race 31 of 36 (5 to go):
1st Tony Stewart
2nd Jimmie Johnson -97
3rd Mark Martin -122
4th Ryan Newman -165 (he was 10th place, 271 points behind the leader at race 26)
5th Rusty Wallace -182
6th Jeff Gordon -211
(Sterling Marlin had an injury which prevented him from contending after race 29)

-Heading into the final race:
1st Tony Stewart
2nd Mark Martin -89
-
3rd Kurt Busch -230 (he was 12th place, 361 points back in race 26)
4th Jimmie Johnson -238
4th Rusty Wallace -238
6th Jeff Gordon -239
7th Ryan Newman -253

-After the final race:
1st Tony Stewart (18th)
2nd Mark Martin -38 (4th)



Mark Martin had a legitimate shot at the cup, and it was pretty close, but what really is amazing is how close it was at for the longest, with the top 6 all within 150 points of the leader with ten races to go and 211 with five, and ven without a chase, it was a close points race, with 5th place [with 10 to go] eventually becoming first place. How is that not exciting when he did it without a point reset? Heck, within 5 races Ryan Newman went from 10th in points to 5th in points, and Kurt went from 12th to 3rd in 10 (once again without resets). Plus, the battle for 3rd was very intense, with 4 drivers separated by 9 points, and 6 within 72 with 1 race to go. 4th-through-7th ended up shuffling during the finale.

In 2003:

-After race 26 of 36:
1st Matt Kenseth
2nd Dale Earnhardt Jr. -418
3rd Kevin Harvick -441
4th Jimmie Jonhson -501

-After race 31 of 36 (5 to go):
1st Matt Kenseth
2nd Kevin Harvick -267
3rd Dale Earnhardt Jr. -324
4th Ryan Newman -331
5th Jimmie Johnson -352

-Heading into the final race:
1st Matt Kenseth
2nd Jimmie Johnson -226
3rd Dale Earnhardt Jr. -264

-After the final race:
1st Matt Kenseth (43rd, engine failure)
2nd Jimmie Johnson -90 (3rd, led a few laps)
3rd Dale Earnhardt Jr. -207 (24th, two laps down)

Sure, this was one of the duller years, and yes Matt did sandbag, I can't deny that, but despite what you say, the "dull years" weren't that common during the old points system.

Originally Posted by MattSRD28

Fans who are anti-Chase do not understand, or are unwilling to accept the realities of sanctioning a major sport in the 21st century.

NASCAR had a poll this month about the chase:

NASCAR Fans Still Don’t Like Chase | Stock Car Spin | A NASCAR Blog

58% said they don't like the Chase and never will, nearly two-thirds of the fanbase that voted. It was in the 60s for a while too when I posted about it in the Random Thought thread. That's a strong hint that the chase is a problem, and if the president of NASCAR was really "sanctioning a major sport in the 21st century", he'd be bending toward what the majority of fans want, not to what he wants. And please, next time you call "every classic points year except 1992" boring, please, look it up first. 1998-2001 was just a fluky series of years, most dominating seasons are several years apart, since 1988, the only "bad" ones other than the 1998-2001 chain were in 1994 and 2003. Most of the others were very close, even by chase standards, and when the "boring", large point leads occurred, it was because the leader DESERVED it.

I just really can not understand why the pro-chase people think that a person that is statistically worse than some other drivers, but had a great 10-series run, should beat a person that was great all year, and only had the 2nd best series of 10 races.

__________________
2004: Jeff Gordon [5] 2005: Tony Stewart [2] 2006: Matt Kenseth [2] 2007: Jeff Gordon [6] 2008: Carl Edwards 2009: Jimmie Johnson 2010: Kevin Harvick 2011: Carl Edwards [2] 2012: Brad Keselowski