1. Hello Guest,

    We wanted to let you know that the NXS17 templates and viewers have been released!

    Grab them HERE
  2. Hello Guest,

    We wanted to let you know that besides the NXS17 templates and viewers, now we have released the NXS17 Mod as well!

    Grab the latest files HERE
  3. Hello Guest,

    We wanted to let you know that we are trying out a new feature at SRD. Your feedback is needed!

    Read more about the chatbox HERE
  4. Hello Guest,

    We are gauging interest in starting an online racing league.

    Please take a moment and give your vote HERE. Thanks!

2018 Election

Discussion in 'Politics/Religion' started by Darren Ingram, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. MattyO

    MattyO Well-Known Member Admin

    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    11,054
    Ok, but something will be sacrificed lowering prices. It's like the North Carolina state income tax constitutional amendment we just voted on lowering it from 10% to 7%. Sounds great, but something else is now being cut. Are roads, schools or whatever not being updated or fixed because we just lowered our state tax 3%?

    Same goes for lowering health care costs, which I agree with you, they are out of fucking control. But, we lower them, then what? Someone, or something, or some institution now isn't getting their funds to continue their research for cancer curing drugs, or whatever. I can tell you this, there is a reason people come here for surgeries instead of getting it done in their countries. Price be damned, they come here to get their procedures done. I know the argument can be made that people from the US go overseas for non FDA approved surgeries, but in my experience, and I've been south of the border and north of the border, I can say without question, I want my life in the hands of hospitals and surgeons in this country. Without question. Sometimes you gotta pay to play. It's a fact of life.

    I think it's a good idea and a discussion needs to be started in the federal government to have some sort of universal health care or government fund/bonds whatever for the poor or unfortunate to be able to get the help they need. I mean there are families out there that need to have procedure done or medicine for their children and can't get it because it's too expensive. That's soul crushing for me to think about. But what I do not want is like I said earlier, paying for people who have no idea what birth control is to have their 4-7 kids when they can't afford to have 1 child, let alone 5 of them. That shit needs to end, now.

    But again, I'm not paying for it. I pay enough. If they can figure out a way to pay for it without raising my taxes, I'll listen for sure.
     
    JeffJordan likes this.
  2. JeffJordan

    JeffJordan My name is no longer Jeff Jordan

    Messages:
    10,272
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    As far as I can tell private hospital money mostly goes into the pockets of C-Suite executives, and mostly back into their assets. Cancer research is mostly funded by the government, charitable organizations, or biopharm companies. https://www.asco.org/advocacy-policy/policies-positions-guidance/federally-funded-cancer-research

    While people from Canada do come to the United States for treatment, that is a small fragment of the population, and a small fragment of Americans travel north of the border to buy cheaper prescription drugs. It goes both ways. Most of the reason that people come from Canada appears to be the wait time issue, which fortunately concerns non-emergency medical care. https://kdvr.com/2015/03/25/americas-favorite-illegal-canadian-import-prescription-drugs/

    Medical tourism is a very interesting topic to me and I'm glad this discussion is enabling me to do more research on it.

    I understand, taxes are killing some people. I think lowering the cost of the hospital price (or keeping a closer eye on those C-suite executives, and where their money goes) would be a good way to make it cheaper for everybody.
     
    joeykraus19 and MattyO like this.
  3. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    Is there not? If anything, I feel that Christians are the lucky ones, and I say that as a Christian. Did we get a Christian travel ban?
    Is it no concern to you that in a majority of states in this country, you can be fired from your job for being gay?

    I never said that I believed Christians should be forced to do things they didn't believe in, like, for example, bake a cake for a gay couple if they didn't believe in it. Hell, why would you want someone who doesn't like you prepare food for you?
    Never said that. Why would I consider myself an idiot?
    It could start with the White House and the Trump Administration. His behavior, like his interview yesterday, for example, is child like and doesn't help anyone.
    Agreed.
     
    joeykraus19 likes this.
  4. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    Also, looks like the Democrats might pick up a Senate seat in Arizona. Krysten Sinema has taken a slim lead over Martha McSally, with more votes still to count.
     
  5. MrDude68

    MrDude68 Occasional Backwards Driver

    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,210
    Thanks for the Christian insight, Brendon. As a fellow Christian, I hope you don't mind if I share just one significant dissenting view of my own...

    I have to say that I don't think this is true. Yes, the Bible states plainly that homosexuality is a sin, but the Bible outlines many other sins too. Christians are not required to be perfect (that's impossible), and no person is too far from grace. You even said so yourself:
    People become Christians when they come to the understanding that they need God, and no sin is worse than another in His eyes. The only thing you need to do to become a Christian is believe in Jesus' life and message, and accept God's grace. I conclude that it is possible to be both homosexual and a Christian. However, I can't imagine that gay Christians would be embracing their urges like their non-religious counterparts. An unrepentant homosexual lifestyle is certainly not demonstrative of true Christianity.

    Here's an article that explains this more thoroughly, for anyone curious:
    https://ses.edu/can-you-be-gay-and-christian/
     
    joeykraus19 and EarnhardtFan like this.
  6. nascarfreak88

    nascarfreak88 Sarcasmo the Great

    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    821
    Speaking as probably the one gay man on here, its the principle of the matter. When I decide to use the services of a public business, I do not want to have to fear that I can be turned away from paying for the services of a public business because of who I am. Of course religious freedom is important, but treating gay people differently just because they are gay is discrimination, no question about it. I can assure you I am very well aware of the stigma against people like me (as you rightly point out for example that it is legal in a majority of states that an employer can fire an employee for being gay, among many others). Doesn't help that that CO baker in particular compared gays to pedophiles and made a cake for two dogs and won't for a same-sex couple. Its dehumanizing and degrading.
     
  7. EarnhardtFan

    EarnhardtFan Residential Twitch Addict

    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    886
    Warning: LONG post
    I had a question here about him being a true Christian but Brendon answered it before I could post.
    Yes I am, as someone who has a lot of LGBT friends and has been tossing around the idea of being LGBT themselves for over a year now, I feel obligated to be concerned about this kind of thing, so thanks for noticing.
    Ok, here's where I need a bit of clarification. Is it sin because it was originally Satan's plan or because children can't be born? Because if it's the latter that raises the issue of people being infertile also falling into that category.
    Nothing against you or your pastor but this is the most stereotypical and cliche anti-LGBT argument/statement in the fucking book. Again nothing against you, but I couldn't help but notice.
    Ok, thanks for the clarification. But even so my original point stands, if they do accept what he has done for them then the fact that being LGBT is a sin is kind of rendered moot in the end.
    This just seems.... unlikely to me. Like I acknowledge that you are more informed than I am on the subject, but to me it seems pretty hard to believe that with all of the denominations of Christianity (Off the top of my head; Catholic, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, and (maybe?) Presbyterian, and I know there's more) there isn't one that LGBT folks aren't welcomed and accepted in without it being a sin. In fact, my grandma, who is (I'm pretty sure at least) Catholic, supports LGBT people, at least based on what I heard her say when I was over there for dinner a month or so back.
    While you explained some things, and I thank you for that, you also brought up a lot more questions than answers.

    I guess I'll end with this for now; Despite being Baptized, I am irreligious for the most part. I believe in various sorts of afterlife and that some sort of god exists who set off the big bang that created the universe, but not much else. On heaven and hell, I believe that the only sure-fire way to get to hell is to apologetically and shamelessly do things that directly hurt people, ie murder, assault, rape, lying (on important things), cheating, infidelity, racism, etc. If you come to accept what you did is wrong and that you have done damage and can't go back, depending on severity/repetition, you could go either way. Otherwise, you're good to go to heaven/be reincarnated since I believe in either or/a chose between either.
    I'm right here with you dude. I haven't come to a solid conclusion yet (see further up after the second quote if you don't get what I'm referring to), and I will admit the fear of being discriminated against for being myself is a big part of why I haven't, whether it be being turned away by a business or being potentially fired for it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    joeykraus19 and nascarfreak88 like this.
  8. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    1,582

    I agree that it sucks. As a black man, I know what you mean about being afraid of being turned away because of who you are. Unfortunately, we can not make people get past their judgement and preconceived notions, so I find it just be best to try to avoid those people at all costs.

    Is it right? No. But I honestly don't know a solution to the issue really.
     
  9. MrDude68

    MrDude68 Occasional Backwards Driver

    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,210
    We've got too many roads branching off of this, and I'm not going down this one.
    Can we not reach for equality without legalizing gay marriage? Refer to the only part of my response that you didn't quote:
    That doesn't change the fact that there are Christians involved in legal cases now as fallout from the ruling on gay marriage. Not believing in it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
    No you didn't say it, but there are other people thinking it. I think you know what I mean. It's easy to dismiss and marginalize people when you justify it by calling them bad names.
     
    BrendonH12 likes this.
  10. JeffJordan

    JeffJordan My name is no longer Jeff Jordan

    Messages:
    10,272
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Well...that is equality. A man and a woman getting married is equal to a man and a man or a woman and a woman getting married now. What other equality would you suggest? Because this type seems absolute.

    The right to discriminate is not enumerated in the constitution, and many of these cases against Christians are about them discriminating against LGBT folks.
     
  11. MrDude68

    MrDude68 Occasional Backwards Driver

    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,210
    This is a misunderstanding. That Colorado baker told those guys he would make them a cake for anything else, but not their wedding. I hope the prior discussion clarifies why making a wedding cake for a gay couple would likely be objectionable to a Christian person. It was the event, not the people, that the baker objected to. It's not discrimination to refuse services for an event on the basis of religious conviction.

    Also, where did he compare gays to pedophiles? Just curious...
     
    BrendonH12 likes this.
  12. JeffJordan

    JeffJordan My name is no longer Jeff Jordan

    Messages:
    10,272
    Likes Received:
    3,900
    Discrimination is making a distinction against somebody because they belong to a certain group. If he did other weddings, but not a wedding for two men, he's discriminating against the two men for being gay.

    https://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminated-against-gay-couple/
    "Phillips admitted he had turned away other same-sex couples as a matter of policy. The CCRD’s decision noted evidence in the record that Phillips had expressed willingness to take a cake order for the “marriage” of two dogs, but not for the commitment ceremony of two women, and that he would not make a cake for a same-sex couple’s wedding celebration “just as he would not be willing to make a pedophile cake.”
     
  13. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    So, to rephrase your statement...

    Can we not reach for equality without having equal rights?

    I'd compare it to the Civil Rights era. Think of the fallout of desegregation. I could make the same argument. Just because segregation isn't allowed doesn't mean racism isn't happening.
     
  14. nascarfreak88

    nascarfreak88 Sarcasmo the Great

    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    821
    JeffJordan and EarnhardtFan like this.
  15. MrDude68

    MrDude68 Occasional Backwards Driver

    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,210
    @JeffJordan @nascarfreak88
    So would you make a cake celebrating pedophilia? You probably would find that objectionable, right? And would you want the courts to make you do it anyway? That's his point. It was only to draw a scenario that more people could relate to.
     
    BrendonH12 likes this.
  16. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

    Messages:
    3,443
    Likes Received:
    4,111
    Looks like Broward County in the news AGAIN, for negative stuff AGAIN.

    I mean.... it's 2018. We are maybe a decade or two away from going to Mars in some fashion, and we cannot have a simple, solid method of voting that doesn't hinge on having to rely on people being trustworthy? C'mon now.

    Also, news agencies (which really aren't anymore; it's all about ratings and messages, even Fox which is why I watch OANN more now than ever...) need to STOP 'calling' races based on projections. It's stupid. I know of a few times when a race was called, being in line, and people LEFT because they figured they didn't matter anymore. That can be construed as a form of actual voter suppression.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    joeykraus19, MattyO, MrDude68 and 4 others like this.
  17. nascarfreak88

    nascarfreak88 Sarcasmo the Great

    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    821
    Its a pretty cynical scenario to draw comparison to. One is ostensibly not a crime, carries essentially the same consequences for those involved as it would for straight people, and is supported by a majority of the population whereas the other is punishable by law, clearly negatively affects one person relative to the other, and is supported by virtually no one. I think its unfair to compare the Tim Cooks of the world to the Rick Crawfords of the world, which is in essence what you're doing by refusing to serve the two populations. Its just the nature of binary outcomes.

    I teach a university sociology course on deviance and conformity, and one of my students a couple weeks ago brought up what I think the most apt comparison I've heard on this issue yet. Imagine if today there was a sizable proportion of the population who adhered to a religion that objected serving people with blonde hair (i.e. a social status that can be hidden at the cost of some sort of strain). If business owners who adhered to this religion refused service to people on the basis of their blonde haired-ness, would we be having the same conversation as we are currently? My guess is probably not.
     
  18. BrendonH12

    BrendonH12 Lover of Jesus! #CarolinaStrong #Pray4theSouth

    Messages:
    3,785
    Likes Received:
    3,707
    O.K. First, I'd like to say there is an apparent contradiction in your words here... You said that believing in something and fighting for a belief is fine. Then, in your very next sentence, you say that "Believing something is wrong." I don't know if this was just a typo, but it kind of makes it difficult to respond. I'll say it again though, I believe everyone has the right to fight for whatever they believe in - whether I agree with it or not. If a Jewish person thinks it's wrong for me to go to church, so be it. I don't expect someone of different views to agree with me and I certainly don't have to agree with them. As well, it sounds like you are referring to the Catholic "church" since you mentioned idols. If a Jewish man wanted to stop me from going to a Catholic church I would readily submit and take him out to Applebee's or something. :) (See my reply to sadlerfan for my feelings on the Catholic "church.")

    Well, besides the account of the nations of Sodom and Gomorrah being personally destroyed by God due to this sin found in Genesis 19:1-25, there's this: http://www.leaderu.com/common/nationsdie.html Now, as I'm sure you'll understand, there probably isn't going to be any "hard" proof about this matter due to these events occurring so long ago. As well, if there was, in this modern day where it is frowned upon to say anything negative about anything without being viewed as a this or that hater, these links have probably been taken down.

    You're both welcome! Always glad to share words of wisdom

    On this subject, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I believe the whole Bible and I always will. There is nothing that will ever shake my faith in God and all of His Holy Word. As far as people being perfect goes, I totally agree. No one is perfect. The Bible says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23). The original Greek translation of this verse says that we are continually coming short of the glory of God. So again, I agree with you - no one is or ever has been perfect, except for Jesus Christ. However, God saves us from sin not in sin. In other words, God does everything possible to pull the Believer away from his sin. Now I agree with you to a certain degree on something as I will try to explain next. Let's say a homosexual gets saved. Can he honestly live for God while still practicing something that God calls a sin? The answer depends on if this new Believer is willfully wanting to practice this sin or if he is doing everything he can to overcome it. If he is willfully practicing this sin, then the answer is no, and furthermore, he is not truly saved. However, if the homosexual truly repents of his sin, turns to God, and asks Him for deliverance, that person is truly saved. Now, let me add to that a little bit: If this new Believer who has been saved and is seeking for his deliverance from this sin falls short and "embraces his urges" as you put it, if he repents after the fact and is sincere, he will be forgiven. God has one prescribed order of victory of sin, and that is placing one's faith in Christ and His finished work of the cross. Period. End of discussion. You cannot obtain victory in any other way! Not by good works, not by abstaining from a sin that you really want to commit, or any other means. Now, here's my point, if the Believer who I have used throughout this example is truly saved, yet doesn't understand "The Message of the Cross" so to speak, he will continue to fail God. This is the only way that someone the world would consider a homosexual can be saved. But in God's mind, this individual is not a homosexual anymore; instead, he is a Believer struggling to find the answer to his problem or gain victory over sin. However, once and if this individual comes to a knowledge of "The Message of the Cross," believing that victory over every sin was won through Jesus' death on the cross, then, and only then, can he be set free from his sin. That goes for any sin and any believer.
    To sum up: a person freely practicing homosexuality cannot be saved. However, an individual who has truly repented, hates his sin, and is struggling to gain victory over that sin to which he still may fall prey to at times - that person is saved, but he is no longer called a homosexual by God, but rather a Believer seeking victory. This can be summed up in one word: Grace. (For more information on a Christian struggling with sin, see Romans chapters 6, 7, and 8. These three chapters detail the life of the Apostle Paul and his struggle against a particular sin that he was inclined to. It ultimately ends with him being free from sin through understanding the message or word of the cross.)
    I hope this has cleared up a few things on the subject for you and as well, it's great to have another Christian on here. God bless you.
    Homosexuality is a sin because it goes against what God originally created and intended for humanity. Allow me to provide a bit of history lesson: At the very beginning of time, God was. He has no beginning and no end. He was not created, but for lack of better terms, He has just always existed. At some point in eternity past, God created angels. All of these angels had a specific task given to them by God to fulfill. One of these angels was named Lucifer. Every evidence points to the fact that he was the most beautiful and glorious of the angels. Incidentally, he was also in charge of the music in heaven. Anyway, Lucifer, being so beautiful and glorious, was lifted up in pride and led a revolt against God - a revolt in which several angels also participated. Consequently, God created hell as a place where Lucifer and those fallen angels would live for all of eternity and cast each and every single one of them out of Heaven. Now, sometime after this, God created the earth and other planets, animals, etc. Eventually, He created human beings. Of note is that human beings are the only creatures created in God's likeness. They are also the only creatures who have a soul and spirit, and are thus able to communicate with God. Be that as it may, God placed the first two human beings into the Garden of Eden and told them they could eat of everything in the garden except for the fruit of one single tree. Now, let's get back to Lucifer, shall we? After his fall from Heaven, Lucifer's name (which means "morning star," relating to the glory that he possessed) was changed to Satan (Devil, adversary). Now, Satan was not locked away in hell and he is still not there today. Rather, the Bible says in 1 Peter 5:8 that he "roams to and fro, seeking whom he may devour." Anyway, Satan entered the garden and and subsequently, possessed the body of a serpent. Using the serpent, Satan tempted Eve and she partook of the forbidden fruit. She also gave Adam the fruit, which he freely partook of as well. Consequently, this brought about what is know as "the fall." The fall of man was a separation from God. God said to Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree of life they would surely die. This was not speaking of physical death, but rather spiritual death, or separation from God. However, it is to be noted that if Adam had not partook of the forbidden fruit, man would not have fell, and Eve could have repented and been forgiven by God. O.K. so after man fell, God cursed the serpent for allowing Satan to enter into him, therefore causing the snake to slither upon the ground for all of its days. This tells us that the snake once had legs and had at least a limited ability to speak as evidenced by Eve not being surprised by the serpent speaking to her. But, God also gave a promise. That promise is as follows: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15). I realize this may be a little difficult to understand, but let me explain... This promise speaks of Jesus (the woman's seed) having animosity with those that follow Satan or simply those that do not accept what Christ has done; the bruising of the heel speaks of Jesus' suffering before and while on the cross; the bruising of the head speaks to what Christ did on the cross as it satisfied God's demands of holiness and justice and set those who will believe on Jesus and His finished work on the cross free from all sin.
    There's a little bit of background info for ya. Now, when Satan heard this, He immediately set out to pervert the human race, which he succeeded a little in doing by introducing the sin of homosexuality to man. As stated, the acts of homosexuality can produce no children, therefore, in Satan's mind, if he could get all of humanity to join in on this, Jesus could not be born. You see, Satan hates humanity. Why? Because God loves us so much. Satan's main goal in life is to prove God wrong and if he would have succeeded in perverting the human race in this fashion, he would have proven God to be a liar. However, and thankfully, he failed in these attempts and Jesus was ultimately born, He died, and He rose again, and one day, He's coming back!
    Now, as to the second part of your question, I'll keep it kind of short: not having children is not a sin. It was the fact of going against what God had established in the beginning: one man and one woman.

    Please see my response to MrDude for more info on this subject.
    You're very welcome for the explanations and I hope that I've helped you out a little more with these further explanations.
    And thank you for allowing me to explain these things from a Biblical perspective.
     
    EarnhardtFan likes this.
  19. MrDude68

    MrDude68 Occasional Backwards Driver

    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    2,210
    I think we do believe the same thing about this, but I just tried to say it in so few words because I didn't want to spend 45 minutes writing out a response lol. That's why I put what I did and then referred to an article at the end.

    My point was that you can be attracted to people of the same sex and commit homosexual acts while still being a Christian. It is just as with any other sin. But the difference between the Christian homosexual and other gays is that the Christian has a repentant heart.

    Another article:
    https://www.purelifeministries.org/blog/how-can-i-be-saved-and-still-be-in-sexual-sin
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  20. BrendonH12

    BrendonH12 Lover of Jesus! #CarolinaStrong #Pray4theSouth

    Messages:
    3,785
    Likes Received:
    3,707
    Yes, but as I stated, the Christian who struggles with homosexuality does not habitually practice it, though he may have a lapse and commit a sin of this nature. Instead, he is to seek to have victory over it which can be done through simple faith in what God has provided for him through the cross.
    Yeah, about the time it takes to write these replies, I've had to stop and save it several times throughout the day. lol
     
    MrDude68 likes this.

Share This Page