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2020 Democratic Primary

Discussion in 'Politics/Religion' started by Darren Ingram, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    Well, if you already weren’t sick of politics, get ready for another election cycle filled with campaign ads everywheee you look and Twitter arguments to go along with them!



    Things are heating up and prominent Democrats have been announcing their bids for President.


    Confirmed candidates for the Democratic nomination:

    Richard Ojeda (WV)
    John Delaney (MD)
    Elizabeth’s Warren (MA)
    Tulsi Gabbard (HI)
    Julian Castro (TX)
    Kirsten Gillibrand (NY)
    Kamela Harris (CA)


    Other prominent Democrats that will most likely run include Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, and Cory Booker.


    I’m pretty sure we have more Republicans here than Democrats, so to you Republicans or independent voters, if you live in an open primary state, which of these candidates would you vote for? Which of these candidates do you like the most, or which of these candidates would could you stomach most if Trump didn’t win re-election?
     
  2. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    The field has changed quite a bit since January, hasn't it. Confirmed candidates for the 2020 Democratic nomination include former VP Joe Biden, along with Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg, Cory Booker, Beto O'Rourke, John Hickenlooper, Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Andrew Yang, and even more. We're up to 20 confirmed candidates.


    One of the candidates who can be considered an "outsider" who has gained a decent sized following is Andrew Yang. I thought he would flame out pretty quickly, but he's earned enough donations and will be on the stage at the first DNC Debate in June. His premier policy plan is his Universal Basic Income, which would essentially give every American 1,000 in cash every month. His website is filled with dozens of detailed policy proposals. I'm growing quite fond of the guy, and he is easily the most detailed candidate when it comes to policy at this point. He even went on The Ben Shapiro show and had an hour long discussion, which was actually quite pleasant to watch. Two people on very different ends of the political spectrum have an hour long discussion about policy, which is something you won't see on Fox or CNN. I recommend giving it a listen.

     
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  3. pomcat

    pomcat Well-Known Member

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    How does this guy expect to fund giving 300 million people a $1000 dollars a month. It just cannot feasibly be done, this would be more than social security pay to most seniors and they can't even get funding for that. It is just hogwash to get noticed.
     
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  4. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    If you go to his website, he's got a detailed plan about how to fund it.

    TLDR: Consolidate and end some current welfare programs, and implement a VAT of 10 percent. Additionally, his goal is to get people off of other welfare programs, and have everyone receive this unconditional 1k a month.

    Additionally, this type of plan is already in place in the USA, in Alaska. A deeply red state, has had a similar program for years and has been successful.

    Here's a link to his site, which goes in much more detail.

    https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-ubi/
     
  5. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

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    It would be closer to 180-200 million people (ages 18+), but your overall point is valid still.

    We are talking 1K per month for those people.... so 1000x190,000,000.... $190 Billion PER MONTH. Over a year that's $2.28 Trillion over ONE YEAR. A four year term would net over $9 Trillion, or just shy of the national debt added under President Obama in his entire 8 years. That's without ANY spending on ANYTHING else, infrastructure, schools, the universal healthcare the Dems want, the erasure of student debt and implementation of free college, foreign aid, military spending, government overhead costs, plus any additional investigations they would like to run during that time.

    So.... yeah..... never mind what we have to pay per term on the existing national debt, trade deficits that still linger, and that our GDP is a relatively scant $19 Trillion (which goes faster than most expect....).

    I'll ride President Trump as bad as any Dem; stop spending us into oblivion. You CANNOT spend your way into prosperity. Because you then have to tax your way out of it. And that never works well.
    Anyone remember the old commercial about the Chinese teacher giving an economics history lesson about the US?

    Because that could very well be a reality if we just toss money at stupid ass programs.

    You want an income? Take your ass to work. There is a MASSIVE deficit in trade-based jobs. You know.... the ones where you work with your hands and actually sweat and work hard? Yeah. Those ones. The ones people dove into college debt to the tune of 6 figures so they wouldn't have to do those jobs.... because somewhere society labeled those jobs as 'beneath' them.

    /rant
     
  6. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

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    Also the MOMENT you inject that kind of capital into the populace is the instant prices of various goods start to increase, because companies exist to make money; if they know the money is out there, you can bet your last dollar they will increase prices to take advantage of that extra capital.
     
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  7. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    DNC announced the lineups for the two nights of the first debate, with the 20 candidates split into two groups of ten.

    [​IMG]


    I really do think Warren is gonna shine on night one. Beto and Gabbard might put up a fight, I don't think anyone else will be too exciting though. Night two has a lot of heavy hitters, I'm really excited to see how the second night plays out. Should be entertaining.
     
  8. MattyO

    MattyO Well-Known Member Admin

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    Has anyone watched the past 2 debates the last 2 nights? If so, what were your thoughts? I've been working crazy late and didn't watch. And I certainly don't trust any of the news outlets to give me an honest evaluation of who performed well and who didn't.
     
  9. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

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    I caught snippets and followed some of the live tweeting. Personally not impressed overall by the platform any of them has (strikes me that the idea of moderate is out the window and we are watching the Dems go FULL ON left), but I will say that I'm fairly certain Bernie Sanders all but eliminated himself (at least in terms of the general election) by outright acknowledging that he would increase taxes on the middle class. No way the average person voluntarily votes for that kind of platform.
     
  10. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    I've watched both nights, all the way through. From Tier 1 being the best, to Tier 6 being the worst, in my opinion, it was...

    Tier 1: Kamala Harris, Julian Castro, Liz Warren
    Tier 2: Bernie Sanders, Cory Booker, Bill de Blasio
    Tier 3: Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Buttigieg
    Tier 3.5: Andrew Yang
    Tier 4: Jay Inslee, Amy Klobuchar, Michael Bennet, John Hickenlooper, Eric Swalwell, Tim Ryan, Marianne Williamson, Kirsten Gillibrand
    Tier 5: Beto O'Rourke, John Delaney, Joe Biden


    Biggest winners were the 3 I put in Tier 1, but especially Castro and Harris. Both of them stole the show, had the most "Presidential" aura about them, and gave answers that I felt satisfied the Democratic base.

    If you were to ask me who I thought the frontrunner was, not who the polls say, but who seemed like the frontrunner, based on the way questions were framed to her or about her, and their general behavior? Warren. She handled herself well, didn't ever seem to be uncomfortable or confused (cough, Biden), and gave a solid performance.

    In my second tier, I was pretty surprised, mostly by Booker. I fully expected him to continue to be his usual "Spartacus", kinda hard to take seriously self, but he answered with conviction, and probably boosted the life of his campaign with his performance.

    de Blasio also really shocked me. I fully expected him to come off as a smug asshole, (see: Delaney), but he gave a pretty solid performance. Solid, progressive answers, stayed out of bickering with anyone, and also probably boosted his campaign's life. His answers were notably more left than I expected him to be.

    Not going to lie, I expected a better performance from Sanders. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't bad at all, but he didn't command the stage like I expected him too. He got to explain Medicare 4 All in more detail, which I think helped him. All in all, a good night, just not the great night I was expecting.


    Third tier of Gabbard and Buttigieg. Not oustanding, but they both did well enough and had their solid moments, especially Gabbard. She absolutely went to town on Tim Ryan about veteran's issues, and ISIS and Al-Qaeda. I thought Ryan was about to start crying in all honesty, she had him visibly shaken and struggling for words.

    Andrew Yang really did not get much airtime at all. He spoke the least out of any of the candidates on either night. He was good when he was active and participating, but he was more or less just there.

    In the fourth tier is where I say these people all had various levels of bad performances. Bennet and Hickenlooper seemed like they were the less charismatic, not as cool versions of Biden, Tim Ryan looked lost being questioned by Gabbard, Willliamson gave some... interesting one liners and intriguing statements, but generally just didn't seem up to the job of President to me. Gillibrand was constantly combative all night, constantly interjecting, giving unnecessarily wordy answers, and probably was starting to annoy her supporters by the end of the night.

    And then, the fifth tier. Beto was hounded by Castro, and Castro won that argument pretty convincingly. Beto seemed lost when discussing specific US immigration laws, and he was not at all the charismatic, lovable Beto that his 2018 followers would remember at all. He also during the course of this Presidential run has pivoted away from some of the things he supported in 2018, and pivoted more to the center, which would make sense if he was running in Texas, but for the Democratic nomination? Not sure that's the best plan of action.

    Delaney managed to piss off every Democrat in the country. He managed to say that he both was against a lot of mainstream Democratic policy issues, while also seeming like an asshole about it. He'd have more success running for the Republican nomination, because I doubt he has many Democratic supporters left.

    And finally, we get to Joe. Tough, tough night for him. Everyone knew that the segregationist discussion would come up, and he managed to answer questions about it in the worst way possible. When questioned by Kamala (part of why she had such a great night), his answer was unconvincing, and he somehow defended the segregationists, defending state's rights in this case. Not a good look for him trying to win the Democratic nomination. I have also never seen a Presidential candidate in a debate to, multiple times throughout the night, stop what they are saying, mid-sentence, before their time is up, and go, "Oh, well my time is up, I'll stop." He looked uncomfortable on stage, he stumbled over his words multiple times, it was, all in all, probably the worst night he could have had. I expected him to have a much better night than he did, and he absolutely did not deliver.


    I tried to be as unbiased as I could during my answers there, and don't think I indicated where my support currently was, but that was my take as someone who watched both debates fully and was also active in discussions during and after the debates.


    The same thing was said about Bernie in 2016, where he also said the same thing, and many people thought it would sink the campaign. He went on to win 22 states, and maintained his frontrunner status this time around as well. I'm pretty sure it comes down to people being okay with higher taxes for the positive results of those higher taxes, myself included. Now, am I saying that I want new taxes? No, I would much rather see the taxes on the ultra wealthy in this country be much, much higher, but saying an increase in taxes on the middle class is not an automatic dealbreaker for me.


    I'll also take this time to say that trickle down economics is a scam and doesn't work.
     
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  11. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

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    Because the polls really nailed what actually happened in 2016.... lol It should have acted as a lesson in humility to the media and pollsters, at the very least a wake up call. Can't expect people to give you honest answers when you vilify the people who support a candidate you or your media company doesn't. Forces them to play things close to the chest, as it was, and honestly that played into Hillary's loss (and don't tell me she had no idea that was coming, her campaign knew before election night she was likely to lose).

    As for paying more taxes for more healthcare. Miss me and about 62 million+ people with that. The middle class wants MORE disposable income, not less, and universal healthcare has been instituted and failed time and again (most recently, Finland, you'll die waiting before being treated, but at least it's "free" amirite?). I see the government putting a cap on what they will pay docs and specialists, under the guise of sudden concern by Democrats about the national debt (calling it now), thereby chopping med workers earnings, and subsequently there will inevitably be a massive shortfall of medical professionals.

    Want to see single payer aka universal healthcare? Go to the VA. Spoiler alert: it friggin sucks to high hell, and is my ONE complaint against the President that he failed to accomplish. It got marginally better, but still.... sucks.
     
  12. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    uh...what? I didn't say anything about polls...?

    I am completely fine with paying more in taxes for universal healthcare... Singapore, Switzerland, Norway, UK.... there is plenty of examples of a universal healthcare system that is successful. Why choose to ignore the overwhelming successes of those systems?
     
  13. J.R.Franklin

    J.R.Franklin Well-Known Member

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    And you would trust us??? :D:p
     
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  14. RacerXero84

    RacerXero84 Obnoxious old fart

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    "The same thing was said about Bernie in 2016, where he also said the same thing, and many people thought it would sink the campaign. He went on to win 22 states, and maintained his frontrunner status this time around as well" .... and a lot of that optimism was driven by polling, which had him beating Trump. Just saying, momentum doesn't necessarily equate to votes in the general.

    Also... Singapore? Really? China's minor offspring?? C'mon man.
    The UK is in the process of failing in that regard as well. Quote me on that, and check back in 2-3 years if they maintain course.

    Switzerland.... yeah. Obviously their government can do what a lot of others cannot. Pretty sure their government gets to tax all those Swiss accounts. Lucrative to say the least. The US and many others don't have that kind of spending power that doesn't come with some level of overhead.

    Norway is starting to exhibit the first signs of failure in that regard: increasing wait times and a drop in quality of care. That continues to mount until you end up like Finland.
     
  15. MattyO

    MattyO Well-Known Member Admin

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    lol, I know right? As crazy as it sounds, I value the opinions here way more than I do of anyone on Fox,CNN,MSNBC you name it. I cannot sit through the one sided bullshit anymore. I just can't.
     
  16. DaleTona75

    DaleTona75 The Punslinger

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    I view all politicians as crooks who lie, cheat, and act like they are the peoples friends, then once they get in office focus on A. staying in office and B. spending their 2 years bickering with each other and getting nothing done :rolleyes: In a little over a year I will be voting age, and OOH boy am I just waiting for phone calls trying to lure me to one side or the other ;)
     
  17. crazyboy335

    crazyboy335 Lawn Duty, Judge Judy

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    [​IMG]

    I feel like if universal healthcare is implemented correctly, it will work. It just needs everyone to do their part. Besides, whatever you spend already on healthcare will just transfer from a megacorp to the government, so it's not like you're throwing away any more money.
     
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  18. DaleTona75

    DaleTona75 The Punslinger

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    I have not followed politics closely since before the 2016 election, and lets just say, by the end of that, I really did not know who to trust :confused: I might be out of the loop and things have changed, but one election cycle was enough for me to figure out that I should just keep my nose out of it, as the drama was way too much for me to bear.
     
  19. Darren Ingram

    Darren Ingram Moderator Moderator

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    Generalizing all politicians as evil boogeymen I feel is unproductive. Go out, inform yourself, volunteer or donate to people you feel align with your beliefs, and vote. I've never understood why people refuse to exercise their right to vote, and contemplate staying home or being uninformed. This goes not only for Presidential or Congressional races, but down to your local races as well.
     
  20. DaleTona75

    DaleTona75 The Punslinger

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    Yeah, I plan on doing just that over the next year, it is just hard to find information that ain't biased to hell and back.
     

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