Drivers only able to accumulate points in one series in 2011

[4WideRacing]

There's good and bad with this. Look at Trevor Bayne-it's likely he'll be running 17 races, which would make him eligible for cup ROTY, EXCEPT.... he'll be running for the NWS championship.

Rookie points and drivers points are different I would hope Nascar would let him get rookie points.

 

[DannyM]

I like the fact that there's going to be a nationwide only champion, but I hate how the highest point getter could finish outside the top 10 behind a bunch of cup guys... We're still going to see the cup guys win these races, they're just not going to get credit, and that just keeps biting at me.

 

[Fisha695]

I didn't read the thread to see if this was already brought up, so if it was my bad, but I figured I'd post here what I just posted on the NTG forums on this topic.

What about a guy like Joe Nemechek? Sure he is technically a "Busch-Whacker" and he does drive for the same team in both series, but he's definitely not in the same category as Edwards, the JGR drivers, the KHI drivers, etc. Lets say Joe declared for NNS points where in theory he would have a better shot at winning the title, but then he ends up winning the Daytona 500 and going on a hot-streak in the Cup series and at the end of the 26th race he should be the points leader in Cup. But because he declared for NNS points does he not get into the chase on the Cup side, does his dream season get ended? Or vice-versa what if he declares for Cup but dominates the NNS series?

Or what about Trevor Bayne? He doesn't have full sponsorship for the NNS series, and it seems like each day it's being reported that he's running more and more Cup races. I'm sure he's already declared for the NNS Championship, but what happens if he goes on a tear in the Cup series and should be the points leader? Is he screwed because his plans changed from the time he signed up for his 2011 NASCAR license & the beginning of the season?

 

[MattSRD28]

I like the fact that there's going to be a nationwide only champion, but I hate how the highest point getter could finish outside the top 10 behind a bunch of cup guys... We're still going to see the cup guys win these races, they're just not going to get credit, and that just keeps biting at me.

Cur drivers who win Nationwide races will still be credited as the race winner. Their teams will still earn 1st place Owners' points. The drivers will not be credited with any drivers' points.

I didn't read the thread to see if this was already brought up, so if it was my bad, but I figured I'd post here what I just posted on the NTG forums on this topic.

What about a guy like Joe Nemechek? Sure he is technically a "Busch-Whacker" and he does drive for the same team in both series, but he's definitely not in the same category as Edwards, the JGR drivers, the KHI drivers, etc. Lets say Joe declared for NNS points where in theory he would have a better shot at winning the title, but then he ends up winning the Daytona 500 and going on a hot-streak in the Cup series and at the end of the 26th race he should be the points leader in Cup. But because he declared for NNS points does he not get into the chase on the Cup side, does his dream season get ended? Or vice-versa what if he declares for Cup but dominates the NNS series?

Yeah, that's why I brought up the question of what happens when someone wants to change which series their pursuing. Someone, at some point, is going to want to do that, and Nascar will either have to change this, or simply tell the driver that he can't change. In Joe's case, he wasn't seriously running for either championship. Joe was just racing to make races. It won't affect him at all.

Or what about Trevor Bayne? He doesn't have full sponsorship for the NNS series, and it seems like each day it's being reported that he's running more and more Cup races. I'm sure he's already declared for the NNS Championship, but what happens if he goes on a tear in the Cup series and should be the points leader? Is he screwed because his plans changed from the time he signed up for his 2011 NASCAR license & the beginning of the season?

Bayne is not scheduled to run a full season in Cup. No Cup driver not anticipating to run the full season in Cup should be expecting to compete for the Cup championship. If Bayne looks very competitive in his 2011 races, then Bayne should have no problem lining up a full time Cup ride for the 2012 season.

 

[Fisha695]

In the span of about 2 weeks Bayne went from running no Cup races to about 5, then it went up to running the 7 race "limit" so he could still be a rookie the next year, and now it's up to 17 and depending on sponsorship possibly the full season.

 

[Blazityler]

I think this is a really sweet move, and could help the upcoming nascar drivers have a easier chance of showing their talent. I think NASCAR did this new rule perfectly. If Cup drivers want to race in the NNS for practice or money they can but you can't run it for points.
Now guys like Trevor Bayne and Aric Almorola can finally show that they got some talent and even though their not better than the Joe Gibbs or Hendrick drivers they still got some useful racing talent.

The only thing that concerns me is what about the sponsors like Discount Tire, NOS, Z-line,Gamestop,and citi. They are pretty much screwed for having a busch-whacker lol

 

[JeffJordan]

See, I'm not quite sure why people are saying that this will give Nationwide-only drivers a chance to show their talent. It won't. It will do the opposite.

What will happen is that, more than likely, Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, and Brad Keselowski will run 30 races or more. They will still be shining in the races, they will still be taking all the trophies. It just means that the Nationwide-only drivers are getting the most points for finishing 6th.

And the Cup guys will just be going for wins. They will battle it out. No chance to shine for the Nationwide drivers, at all. If you believe that this will help the Nationwide drivers stand out more, they will in the championship, but not at all in the racing.

 

[Mike24]

But getting your name in the discussion for a Championship will get you more exposure. At first they may not be winning races because of Cup guys still swooping down to get wins despite getting no points...but the more and more exposure these NWide only drivers get, the better. Sponsors will be attracted, and eventually we'll have the old NWide series back, because owners will start to develop talent again, with backing. (wishful thinking, I know...but I can see where NASCAR is intending to go with this and I'm hoping it works).

 

[Fisha695]

But getting your name in the discussion for a Championship will get you more exposure. At first they may not be winning races because of Cup guys still swooping down to get wins despite getting no points...but the more and more exposure these NWide only drivers get, the better. Sponsors will be attracted, and eventually we'll have the old NWide series back, because owners will start to develop talent again, with backing. (wishful thinking, I know...but I can see where NASCAR is intending to go with this and I'm hoping it works).

See I think it may actually do the opposite and take even more spotlight away from the Drivers Championship & thus the Nationwide only drivers. I feel it's almost going to turn it into a "F1" style way of doing things where the Constructors (Owners) Championship takes the top spot in terms of what the media, sponsors, teams care about. For years the Owners Championship was and afterthought and then over the past few years it started to slowly become the coveted thing that gets all the attention and truly in my heart the more I think about the effects of this rule believe that it will basically complete that push to make the Owners Championship the main Championship in the NNS.

 

[MattSRD28]

In the span of about 2 weeks Bayne went from running no Cup races to about 5, then it went up to running the 7 race "limit" so he could still be a rookie the next year, and now it's up to 17 and depending on sponsorship possibly the full season.

But it's not & won't be a full season. Bayne is not going to compete for the 2011 Cup championship, so this doesn't hurt him at all.

The only thing that concerns me is what about the sponsors like Discount Tire, NOS, Z-line,Gamestop,and citi. They are pretty much screwed for having a busch-whacker lol

No they aren't. They'll still get just as much exposure from a car running up front as they got last year. If the Cup driver decides to run less races, then the sponsor will put more pressure on the team to find a better young driver, which will results in more & better young drivers being found. That will improve the racing product of the 2nd/3rd tier series.

See, I'm not quite sure why people are saying that this will give Nationwide-only drivers a chance to show their talent. It won't. It will do the opposite.

What will happen is that, more than likely, Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, and Brad Keselowski will run 30 races or more. They will still be shining in the races, they will still be taking all the trophies. It just means that the Nationwide-only drivers are getting the most points for finishing 6th.

In other words, exactly what happened last year that worked out just fine for the Nationwide/Truck Series.

And the Cup guys will just be going for wins. They will battle it out. No chance to shine for the Nationwide drivers, at all. If you believe that this will help the Nationwide drivers stand out more, they will in the championship, but not at all in the racing.

This won't change anything besides give the Nationwide drivers more attention in the championship battle. More attention helps the young drivers, thereby helping the sport.

See I think it may actually do the opposite and take even more spotlight away from the Drivers Championship & thus the Nationwide only drivers. I feel it's almost going to turn it into a "F1" style way of doing things where the Constructors (Owners) Championship takes the top spot in terms of what the media, sponsors, teams care about. For years the Owners Championship was and afterthought and then over the past few years it started to slowly become the coveted thing that gets all the attention and truly in my heart the more I think about the effects of this rule believe that it will basically complete that push to make the Owners Championship the main Championship in the NNS.

This isn't going to happen because Nascar isn't F1. The philosophies and worldviews of the participants, media, and spectators are very, very different. Nascar isn't going to change simply because a current Cup driver can't win the Truck or Nationwide Series drivers championship anymore.

The better question to ask is, "Do I even remember who won the Nationwide series champ after Martin Truex?" This rules change will set the attention back to how it was before the Cup drivers started running every race. I don't see how that can end any way except to the benefit of the Nationwide/Truck Series.

 

[labontefanboy]

I have a question that probably nobody has an answer to yet:
Scenario:
Kyle Busch wins at Bristol in the Nationwide series, and finishing second is Justin Allgaier. Does Allgaier get the points for first place, or do they bypass first place's points value?

 

[4WideRacing]

I have a question that probably nobody has an answer to yet:
Scenario:
Kyle Busch wins at Bristol in the Nationwide series, and finishing second is Justin Allgaier. Does Allgaier get the points for first place, or do they bypass first place's points value?

I would hope that Justin Allgaier would get points for the 2nd place finish that way there would be a bigger incentive to beat the cup guys and it would make it easier to change what series you get points counted in. Nascar has not announced anything that I know about it.

 

[FloridaFan88]

That is a good idea. In this case the driver shouldn't be awarded first place points for a second place finish.

 

[super39fan]

But won't that create a somewhat uneven points system.

Say, a Nationwide guy finishes 3rd, cup drivers fill out the top 10 and the closest NW guy finishes 11th. That's a 30 point difference between the two while the 4th through 10th place guys don't collect any points.

 

[labontefanboy]

But won't that create a somewhat uneven points system.

Say, a Nationwide guy finishes 3rd, cup drivers fill out the top 10 and the closest NW guy finishes 11th. That's a 30 point difference between the two while the 4th through 10th place guys don't collect any points.

Yep, that's what I'm a little worried about. Let's hope NASCAR answers a lot of questions at Daytona testing.

 

[4WideRacing]

But won't that create a somewhat uneven points system.

Say, a Nationwide guy finishes 3rd, cup drivers fill out the top 10 and the closest NW guy finishes 11th. That's a 30 point difference between the two while the 4th through 10th place guys don't collect any points.

Just like it was last year for the Nationwide drivers.

 

[Cheeze]

But won't that create a somewhat uneven points system.

Say, a Nationwide guy finishes 3rd, cup drivers fill out the top 10 and the closest NW guy finishes 11th. That's a 30 point difference between the two while the 4th through 10th place guys don't collect any points.

Simple solution: race harder. If they want it bad enough they'll find a way to pass

 

[Markfan]

But it's not & won't be a full season. Bayne is not going to compete for the 2011 Cup championship, so this doesn't hurt him at all.

I don't know about you, but I'd sure as heck rather have a resume saying that I got a top 30-40 place finish in the points after all those races than have zip.

No they aren't. They'll still get just as much exposure from a car running up front as they got last year. If the Cup driver decides to run less races, then the sponsor will put more pressure on the team to find a better young driver, which will results in more & better young drivers being found. That will improve the racing product of the 2nd/3rd tier series.

If the Cup drivers are still getting money, they aren't going to care and just have a larger incentive to win more. Look at some of the past years, for example, Mark Martin won 7 of the 28 busch races in 1993, and he only competed in half of them (literally), alongside "part-timers" Dale Earnhardt (3 wins), Michael Waltrip (2), Bill Elliott (1), Ken Schrader, Dale Jarrett, Sterling Marlin, Harry Gant, Terry LaBonte, Darrell Waltrip, Jimmy Spencer, Rick Mast, Davey Allison, Bobby Labonte, Hut Stricklin, and Jimmy Hensley. However, the schedule made it somewhat impractical for them to serve full-time double duty.

You know how they should stop Buschwhacking? They should make the schedules different again, and make the majority of races have conflicting dates with the Cup series (like the truck series used to do). I mean, look at the schedule for this year:

In 2011:

"Week" 1:
C: Daytona
B: Daytona
T: Daytona
Week 2:
Choenix
Bhoenix
Thoenix
Week 3:
C:Las Vegas
B:Las Vegas
Week 4:
T: Darlington
Week 5:
C:Bristol
B:Bristol
Week 5:
C:California
B:California
Week 6:
C:Martinsville
T:Martinsville
Week 7:
C:Texas
B:Texas
Week 8:
C:Talladega
B:Talladega
Week 9:
B:Nashville
T:Nashville
Week 10:
C:Richmond
B:Richmond
Week 11:
C: Darlington
B: Darlington
Week 12:
C: Dover
B: Dover
T: Dover
Week 13:
C: Charlotte [All-Star]
B: Iowa
T: Charlotte
Week 14:
C: Charlotte
B: Charlotte
Week 15:
C: Kansas
B: Chicagoland
T: Kansas
Week 16:
C: Pocono
T: Texas
Week 17:
C: Michigan
B: Michigan
Week 18:
C: Sears Point
B: Road America
Week 19:
C: Daytona
B: Daytona
Week 20:
C: Kentucky
B: Kentucky
T: Kentucky
Week 21:
C: New Hampshire
B: New Hampshire
T: Iowa
Week 22:
B: Nashville
T: Nashville
Week 23:
C: Indianapolis [Motor Speedway]
B: Indianapolis [Raceway Park]
T: Indianapolis [Raceway Park]
Week 24:
C: Pocono
B: Iowa
T: Pocono
Week 25:
C: Watkins Glen
B: Watkins Glen
Week 26:
C: Michigan
B: Villenueve
T: Michigan
Week 27:
C: Bristol
B: Bristol
T: Bristol
Week 28:
C: Atlanta
B: Atlanta
T: Atlanta
Week 29:
C: Richmond
B: Richmond
Week 30:
C: Chicagoland
B: Chicagoland
T: Chicagoland
Week 31:
C: New Hamsphire
T: New Hampshire
Week 32:
C: Dover
B: Dover
T: Kentucky
Week 33:
C: Kansas
B: Kansas
Week 34:
C: Charlotte
B: Charlotte
T: Las Vegas
Week 35:
C: Talladega
T: Talladega
Week 36:
C: Martinsville
T: Martinsville
Week 37:
C: Texas
B: Texas
T: Texas
Week 38:
C: Phoenix
B: Phoenix
Week 39:
C: Homestead
B: Homestead
T: Homestead

The cup series only has two races where they don't have the trucks and/or 2nd-tier cars running at the same track-or-city on the same week, that's ridiculous. The truck series doesn't even have any tracks unique to it's series, and the whole point of it's formation was to make it unique.




If they HAVE to have their schedules be that favorably similar for the Buschwhackers, they could have just made it so that you can't compete in more than 20 races in a series other than the one you sign up as, that way they can still get the points that they deserve . . . now it's like the cup series: helping those that weren't worthy of championship runs that year get the cup away from the people that were.

This won't change anything besides give the Nationwide drivers more attention in the championship battle. More attention helps the young drivers, thereby helping the sport.

Except the champion will not be the best driver of the season.

This isn't going to happen because Nascar isn't F1. The philosophies and worldviews of the participants, media, and spectators are very, very different. Nascar isn't going to change simply because a current Cup driver can't win the Truck or Nationwide Series drivers championship anymore.

How does that not change it at all?

The better question to ask is, "Do I even remember who won the Nationwide series champ after Martin Truex?" This rules change will set the attention back to how it was before the Cup drivers started running every race. I don't see how that can end any way except to the benefit of the Nationwide/Truck Series.

While not literally running every race, Buschwhackers have been running good-sized schedules in the Busch series for quite some time, such as in my example where, in 1993, almost half of the Busch season's races were won by cup racers. Cup racers bring competition and Busch and Truck drivers need to do better, the problem is that the smaller teams usually aren't that good (i.e. the FIRST 7 straight years in the truck series were won by drivers running for teams and owners that were successful in the cup series, and only once in the past 13 years has a Busch champ not been associated with a cup team/driver), and the pool of new drivers heading into NASCAR is getting small, the Cup rookies of the past few years are an excellent example of this.

 

[MattSRD28]

^ I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying the Nationwide Series would be better off if Cup drivers were banned from its races?

 

[David24]

It seems to be this is a situation of "damned if you do and damned if you don't" for Nascar. What should they do? Ban Cup guys and have people gripe that the youngn's won't get enough experience? Or let them race just for S&G's and not get points yet still take over? OR let it be the way it has been and let them dominate (along with complaining fans)?

Racing is racing and obviously this new rule won't change anything drastically so I don't really mind. But to each their own.