How to fix the chase & make everyone happy.

[JamesFranklin84]

I've really dove into the past here with my thinking and how I watch Nascar today. I LOVE the first 26 races of the season. It's awesome, fun, entertaining...and you still have a points leader at the end.

I loved the idea of the Chase at first but it seems like it's just driven fans away from Nascar. Why did we install the chase? Because Matt Kenseth won the points by driving consistently and winning 1 or 2 races in the season. It was a 36 race season I believe.

Now, back to how I would fix it. You go back to the "old days" there were 29 races in a season for a LONG time. Why did this work so well? Because every race still mattered. When you have 36 races in a season, you just want to get Top 10's and get your points.

In a 29 race season, every race counts more. This is why the first 26 are so exciting.

It's right there in front of us and people are not showing up to races and falling asleep half way through races because there is one every weekend for 9 months. Make it 2 races every 3 weeks all the sudden the races mean more.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts. Go back to the days of 29 races and see how close the points were... we didn't need a chase. This is also when everyone wasn't on "equal" equipment. Imagine that now...

Thanks for reading!

James

 

[Carl Robinson]

My Idea

Keep the new points system

12 car chase

top ten in points are locked in
11th place is the one driver with a win outside the top 10

12th will be the highest finishing rookie throuout the season

Reset the top 12 to 0 going into the last 4 race's

Race 1
Atlanta

Race 2
Bristol

Race 3
Watkins Glen

Race 4
Talladega (Night)

 

[OAS][shprshootr]

My idea...

Keep the points, its a lot closer in my eyes than it has been..

Take the chase make it 5 races at the hardest tracks out there..

If a certain person such as, ohhhhhhhh idk *cough* Jimmie *cough* makes it start him back a total of 40 points regardless and keep it 12 drivers

 

[dalejrgamer]

My idea:

get rid of it. Plain and simple (aka NASCAR won't do it)

 

[John Gregorio]

The COT killed Nascar in my opinion. The way it is now, everyone shows up with the same stuff as everyone else with the exception of maybe 3 guys who found something small as an advantage. Thus you get these races where the same guys always win. We need to make the box a little bigger, give room to creativity and let crew chiefs invent. This is why racing used to be so fun to watch, teams showed up with tweaked race cars and exploits to make it go fast. With everyone being equal, people cant pass, they get stuck and it leads to boring races.

 

[JamesFranklin84]

The COT killed Nascar in my opinion. The way it is now, everyone shows up with the same stuff as everyone else with the exception of maybe 3 guys who found something small as an advantage. Thus you get these races where the same guys always win. We need to make the box a little bigger, give room to creativity and let crew chiefs invent. This is why racing used to be so fun to watch, teams showed up with tweaked race cars and exploits to make it go fast. With everyone being equal, people cant pass, they get stuck and it leads to boring races.

I agree. I was all for the COT to be honest. I wanted to see who the best driver was but this has proven that EVERYONE is a good driver. Nascar's line-up of about 30 guys are definitely the best in the world at what they do.

Get rid of the chase works for me. Give them a bigger box to work inside. START UP THE AERO WARS AGAIN!!!

 

[RP Motorsports]

Its a thread like this that just confirms the old sayings "the grass is always greener on the other side" and "you cant please everybody".

Now, back to how I would fix it. You go back to the "old days" there were 29 races in a season for a LONG time. Why did this work so well? Because every race still mattered. When you have 36 races in a season, you just want to get Top 10's and get your points.

In a 29 race season, every race counts more. This is why the first 26 are so exciting.

Every year that we've had the Chase (and many before) the points leader after 26 races has had a commanding lead by at least 100-200 points. If it wernt for the Chase and the points reset, the championship wouldve been decided by race 26 in most of those instances. And thats exactly why they implemented the Chase - So that we're guaranteed some kind of close points battle with at least 10 to go.

The COT killed Nascar in my opinion. The way it is now, everyone shows up with the same stuff as everyone else with the exception of maybe 3 guys who found something small as an advantage. Thus you get these races where the same guys always win. We need to make the box a little bigger, give room to creativity and let crew chiefs invent. This is why racing used to be so fun to watch, teams showed up with tweaked race cars and exploits to make it go fast. With everyone being equal, people cant pass, they get stuck and it leads to boring races.

I wouldnt say that the same guys always win. Out of 14 races so far, we have 11 different winners, including Bayne, Smith, and Keselowski.

The COT brought some parity to NASCAR and brought the field a little closer together, which is what everyone wanted. You're always going to have real good teams, average teams, and real bad teams no matter what you do. Thats just part of it.

The situation you're talking about with the same guys winning all the time is what happeneds without that parity. Money buys speed. The bigger teams have more money to put into their whole operation and therefore would always run up front. The COT, along with eliminating testing, and now the new points format, has closed that gap up some thoughout the whole field. Penske and Ganassi in IndyCar would be a good example of what happens without that. There isnt much parity in that series and the end result is two teams that have the whole field covered by a significant amount.



I gotta say, and the majority of fans, media, drivers, and owners agree, the past 1-2 years have been the best racing that has ever happened in NASCAR. Tracks like Fontana and Pocono, which were always at the bottom of the list, have put on a hell of a show the past year or two. Even the road course races were exciting to people who usually wernt into the road courses.

It amazes me to hear people say that the racing has been boring. I guess the old sayings really are true. The grass is always greener on the other side and you cant please everybody.

With all due respect to everyone, if you think the last couple years of NASCAR racing have been boring, then you should probably find something else to watch.

-Ryan

 

[JamesFranklin84]

Plenty of good stuff said there. It just doesn't make sense for someone to limp into the Chase though and win it all. Kevin Harvick by far was the best last year and he gets a 3rd place to show for it.

The guys that make the chase race hard for 26 races then in the last 10 they try to go consistent and get top 10's which makes it boring. I definitely enjoy the "regular season" more than the "post season".

Here ya go Jimmie...26 races in which you'll do just good enough to be a top 12 driver then we'll leave you your best tracks so you can win it all. Kyle, amazing season buddy but you just wrecked in race 1 of the chase and you're done for.

 

[Bobby Childs Jr]

I think the 'Chase' portion needs to be reworked. The tracks need to be more representative of the series and not just cookie cutters with a plate track and a short track worked in. Add a road course in there. Also let's do a Winston-flip - based on a fan vote a certain portion of the leaders would have their positions flipped. Exciting? Yes. Infuriating? To some lol

 

[Julio Chang]

I guess I'm just an oddball, because I would be royally pissed if they shortened the season. Hell if it were up to me I'd have them racing every week with the exception of major holidays. I LOVE racing and to me the on track action gets better and better every year. I want them racing all the time because I want to watch racing all the time. This year has been incredible. Plenty of good hard racing, surprise winners, feuds, the return to victory lane for one of the all time greats, and for people that like him, the resurgence of Dale Jr. have all combined to make this an GREAT season. I think some people expect a 2007 Daytona 500 style finish every week. That never has and never will happen. Never ever ever ever. Good racing isn't just a side by side finish and spectacular crashes. As for the chase, I don't care for it. I think they're trying to make a stick and ball format for something that well, isn't a stick and ball sport. I don't think it works particularly well for racing. Hamlin blowing the lead would've still cost him a title regardless of system. Kyle's horrible luck at the start of the 2008 chase, still would've cost him the title under the old system. NASCAR changed the system this year, and I want to see how it works out before I decide my thoughts on it.

 

[DBReaver35]

I guess I'm just an oddball, because I would be royally pissed if they shortened the season. Hell if it were up to me I'd have them racing every week with the exception of major holidays. I LOVE racing and to me the on track action gets better and better every year. I want them racing all the time because I want to watch racing all the time. This year has been incredible. Plenty of good hard racing, surprise winners, feuds, the return to victory lane for one of the all time greats, and for people that like him, the resurgence of Dale Jr. have all combined to make this an GREAT season. I think some people expect a 2007 Daytona 500 style finish every week. That never has and never will happen. Never ever ever ever. Good racing isn't just a side by side finish and spectacular crashes. As for the chase, I don't care for it. I think they're trying to make a stick and ball format for something that well, isn't a stick and ball sport. I don't think it works particularly well for racing. However Harvick pissing his lead away, which still would've happened under the old format, isn't really the Chase's fault. Kyle's horrible luck at the start of the 2008 chase, still would've cost him the title under the old system. NASCAR changed the system this year, and I want to see how it works out before I decide my thoughts on it.

Ummm what race were you watching Harvicks lead went away because the chase reset the standing by bonus points. By the old system Last year Harvick would have been champ.
Harvick ran better then anyone in 36 races. He lost the championship last year because of wins. Its like Carl Edwards right now I dont care he is leading if Harvick gets the most wins this year and stays in the top 6 after Richmond he will be in the lead. That is what I dont like those who work hard during those first 26 get screwed, Tony Stewart stated that 2 years ago.

 

[J.W.]

Why not do away with the chase and reward winners with more points? Tweak the system so that consistency isn't enough, you have to win races. Not only would that make the points race more interesting, you'd have dirvers racing harder on the track as well.

 

[Julio Chang]

Ummm what race were you watching Harvicks lead went away because the chase reset the standing by bonus points. By the old system Last year Harvick would have been champ.
Harvick ran better then anyone in 36 races. He lost the championship last year because of wins. Its like Carl Edwards right now I dont care he is leading if Harvick gets the most wins this year and stays in the top 6 after Richmond he will be in the lead. That is what I dont like those who work hard during those first 26 get screwed, Tony Stewart stated that 2 years ago.

I meant Hamlin lol. Bad error. Obviously Harvick wins under old system. I will say though that the my statement that there are factors other than the system itself that causes people to lose titles still stands.

 

[JeffJordan]

My idea for the Chase:

Get rid of it.

Its a thread like this that just confirms the old sayings "the grass is always greener on the other side" and "you cant please everybody".


Every year that we've had the Chase (and many before) the points leader after 26 races has had a commanding lead by at least 100-200 points. If it wernt for the Chase and the points reset, the championship wouldve been decided by race 26 in most of those instances. And thats exactly why they implemented the Chase - So that we're guaranteed some kind of close points battle with at least 10 to go.

Even the Chase likers use the same argument, with "They would have raced differently." which, granted, is true.

Hamlin and Johnson were clearly able to race with Harvick in the last ten races, why couldn't they do something in the first 26 races of the season? Johnson has admitted to using some of the first 26 races as a test session, and it really says something about the competitive aspect of the Cup Series. 36 races through you have to be on the top of your game and the Chase is killing the Cup Series for many because a driver supposedly capable of winning five championships won't even truly race for some of the season.

The Chase may make a closer championship battle, but no matter what, it contains it to 10 races. It's preventing full-season championship battles and that is a bad, bad thing. I mean, imagine if Harvick, Hamlin and Johnson were tens of points away from each other through the early summer portion of the season? That would have been exciting, but the Chase prevented it and the drivers that ended up 1-2 in the points didn't even have to try. And that's just pathetic.

 

[JamesFranklin84]

Why not do away with the chase and reward winners with more points? Tweak the system so that consistency isn't enough, you have to win races. Not only would that make the points race more interesting, you'd have dirvers racing harder on the track as well.

I like this a lot. Give a more F1 points system and people will race hard for wins. I believe Montoya made a comment about that a year or 2 ago.

 

[JeffJordan]

I like this a lot. Give a more F1 points system and people will race hard for wins. I believe Montoya made a comment about that a year or 2 ago.

And then you will see a further-flawed system where The guy who loses 19th by 2 tenths of a second gets the same amount of points as the guy who parks on lap 15.

 

[JamesFranklin84]

And then you will see a further-flawed system where The guy who loses 19th by 2 tenths of a second gets the same amount of points as the guy who parks on lap 15.

By this I didn't mean give only the Top 10 points. Top 25 would work with 43 cars. I just meant the point spread from 1st to 2nd to 3rd etc.

In other words, wins should mean a hell of a lot more.

 

[David24]

Ryan said it best. "The grass is greener on the other side"

Lets go back to the "old system"....It DID happen and would have definitely happened again. A driver runs away with the points lead making the last 3-4 races pointless. That's really fun. I'd rather have the Chase than that. I don't care for the Chase either, I just watch Nascar because I like racing.

 

[Markfan]

Every year that we've had the Chase (and many before) the points leader after 26 races has had a commanding lead by at least 100-200 points.

In 2004, Jeff Gordon led the standings by 60 points over JJ and in 2006, Matt Kenseth led the standings by 57 points over JJ. (Coincidentally, those are the only two times that JJ came even close to having the lead when coming into the chase)

If it wernt for the Chase and the points reset, the championship wouldve been decided by race 26 in most of those instances.

Under the old system, Kyle Busch would have lost the 2008 championship after entering with a 200+ point lead, while Tony would do the same in a 3-way, last race championship battle between JJ, Jeff and Tony that would have been less than 50 points from 1st to 3rd.

And thats exactly why they implemented the Chase - So that we're guaranteed some kind of close points battle with at least 10 to go.

Well, it has caused as many clinches as it has prevented.

I wouldnt say that the same guys always win. Out of 14 races so far, we have 11 different winners, including Bayne, Smith, and Keselowski.

2011 is a bit of an oddball season, but in general, it's almost always the same teams: Roush, Hendrick, Gibbs, Penske and Childress.

The COT brought some parity to NASCAR and brought the field a little closer together, which is what everyone wanted. You're always going to have real good teams, average teams, and real bad teams no matter what you do. Thats just part of it.

The COT didn't bring the fields closer together, the mystery debris cautions and GWCs did.

The situation you're talking about with the same guys winning all the time is what happeneds without that parity.

In 2007, only seven teams had a victory (two of which only garnered one), not to mention that Hendrick literally won half of the cup races and just the victory totals of three organizations amounted to 29 out of 36 races.

Money buys speed. The bigger teams have more money to put into their whole operation and therefore would always run up front.

True.

The COT, along with eliminating testing

The COT itself did not make the field closer, and they didn't eliminate testing per sae, they just can't use official cup/busch/truck tracks.

and now the new points format, has closed that gap up some thoughout the whole field.

lol. You really think that the new points system closed up the field? Carl Edwards already has a 40 point lead in 13 races. Jimmie Johnson would have to place 4th without Carl even attempting the race for him to be tied again. Also, the whole "emphasis on victories" has failed miserably. The top 3 have a total of 2 wins among themselves. The seemingly close points standings are just a fabrication of a dumbed down points system, especially in the Nationwide series, where the points leader and 2nd place driver have obtained a whopping total of zero victories in nearly half of a season.

Penske and Ganassi in IndyCar would be a good example of what happens without that.

It's more noticeable than ever in NASCAR. Which teams have won this year?

Roush Racing (3 wins)
-Wood Bros. [powered by Roush Racing] (1 win)
Hendrick Motorsports (2 wins)
Joe Gibbs Racing (2 wins)
Richard Childress Racing (3 wins)
-Furniture Row [powered by RCR] (1 win)
Penske (1 win)

7 teams (5 if you consider the satellite teams as "extensions"). And that's not even considering the previous seasons. Most teams now are circumventing the 4-car limit by supplying their superior engines/chassis to satellite teams. Two of which are Furniture Row and Woods Bros.

There isnt much parity in that series and the end result is two teams that have the whole field covered by a significant amount.

That has applied pretty solidly to Hendrick, Roush, Gibbs and Childress (ESPECIALLY the first two) for the entirety of the chase's existance [not related, though]:

2011
1) Roush Racing: 3 wins
1) Richard Childress Racing: 3 wins
3) Hendrick Motorsports: 2 wins
3) Joe Gibbs Racing: 2 wins
5) Penske Racing: 1 win
5) Wood Bros. Racing: 1 win
5) Furniture Row Racing: 1 win

2010
1) Joe Gibbs Racing: 11 wins
2) Hendrick Motorsports: 6 wins
3) Richard Childress Racing: 5 wins
4) Roush Racing: 4 wins
4) Earnhardt-Ganassi: 4 wins

2009
1) Hendrick Motorsports: 13 wins
2) Joe Gibbs Racing: 8 wins
3) Stewart-Haas Racing: 4 wins
4) Roush Racing: 3 wins
5) Penske Racing: 2 wins

2008
1) Roush Racing: 11 wins
2) Joe Gibbs Racing: 10 wins
3) Hendrick Motorsports: 8 wins
4) Richard Childress Racing: 3 wins
5) Penske Racing: 2 wins
5) Evernham Motorsports: 2 wins

2007 (7 teams took all 36 victories)
1) Hendrick Motorsports: 18 wins
2) Roush Racing: 7 wins
3) Joe Gibbs Racing: 4 wins
4) Richard Childress Racing: 3 wins
5) Penske Racing: 2 wins
6) Dale Earnhardt Inc.: 1 win
6) Ganassi Racing: 1 win


2006
1) Hendrick Motorsports: 9 wins
2) Joe Gibbs Racing: 7 wins
3) Roush Racing: 6 wins
3) Richard Childress Racing: 6 wins
3) Evernham Motorsports: 6 wins

2005
1) Roush Racing: 15 wins
2) Hendrick Motorsports: 10 wins
3) Joe Gibbs Racing: 5 wins
4) Evernham Motorsports; 2 wins
5) Richard Childress Racing: 1 win
5) Penske Racing: 1 win
5) Robert Yates Racing: 1 win
5) Dale Earnhardt Inc.: 1 win


2004
1) Hendrick Motorsports: 13 wins
2) Roush Racing: 8 wins
3) Dale Earnhardt Inc.: 6 wins
4) Penske Racing: 3 wins
5) Joe Gibbs Racing: 2 wins
5) Robert Yates Racing: 2 wins

I gotta say, and the majority of fans, media, drivers, and owners agree, the past 1-2 years have been the best racing that has ever happened in NASCAR.

That is your opinion, I believe that the only season which was worse was 2007's.

Lets go back to the "old system"....It DID happen and would have definitely happened again. A driver runs away with the points lead making the last 3-4 races pointless. That's really fun. I'd rather have the Chase than that. I don't care for the Chase either, I just watch Nascar because I like racing.

The chase does not prevent clinching. JJ pretty much had it in the bag in 2008 and 2009 thanks to the chase, and if you used the chase system with the 1998 results, Jeff Gordon would have clinched it 2 races in advance. And personally, I'd MUCH rather the victor be the person that worked the hardest for the entire season, not one that "is victorious" due to a flawed fabrication.

 

[Phantomguy24]

in my opinion the new points have done exactly what they were supposed to do. They weren't supposed to make it closer, they were supposed to make it easier to understand. Also the way the season is going, it looks like brad kesalowski has a good shot at being in the chase. That's pretty cool.