NASCAR Rule 12.4 (L)

[nascarman14]

Eliminate the Chase. This won't happen again.

But just think of this. If there was no chase then that would have been just a regular 'ole race. The excitement level of it is what NASCAR is trying to get. Maybe if they find something different to do then I could see them doing away with the chase. But I just don't see them getting rid of it because it brings excitement to the last few races before the chase and the ten chase races.

 

[Markfan]

So when drivers want to struggle in order to get behind key targets for a race scenario, they'll just go over it in private before the race happens and make the car tighter when it making it looser will improve it and vice versa, slide up the track and "get loose" when a teammate is getting ready to pass them or claim that when they spin it was not intentional. This solves nothing.

 

[ThatOneShredder]

I completely disagree with NASCAR only enforcing this rule to certain drivers. That's absolutely pathetic. If NASCAR makes a rule, it should be enforced to ALL drivers, not just some.

 

[labontefanboy]

I completely disagree with NASCAR only enforcing this rule to certain drivers. That's absolutely pathetic. If NASCAR makes a rule, it should be enforced to ALL drivers, not just some.

Where in this rule does it say it only applies to specific drivers? If you're talking about start and parkers, it actually doesn't apply because start and park teams technically drop out of the race due to "performance issues".

 

[ThatOneShredder]

Where in this rule does it say it only applies to specific drivers? If you're talking about start and parkers, it actually doesn't apply because start and park teams technically drop out of the race due to "performance issues".

Yes, that's specifically what I'm saying. I completely understand both sides of it, but I don't like it. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[nascarman14]

Yes, that's specifically what I'm saying. I completely understand both sides of it, but I don't like it. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Exactly! Because they hardly ever REALLY have an issue that REALLY takes them out of the race other than "lack of money". If they can hardly own a cup team then why don't they just go down to the truck or nationwide series so you don't have to drop out of the race because money issues.

 

[K.Chuck]

Why not just say "Don't let us catch trying to manipulate the race results."

 

[NDilbeckWx]

Exactly! Because they hardly ever REALLY have an issue that REALLY takes them out of the race other than "lack of money". If they can hardly own a cup team then why don't they just go down to the truck or nationwide series so you don't have to drop out of the race because money issues.

It's a lot easier to own a cup team than it is Nationwide or Truck, simply because they get paid more for finishing last in a Cup race than they would in the two lower series. Plus, there is more of a sponsorship opportunity - which is a reason why there are so many more blank cars in the lower series.

 

[Matt Yeager]

When you enter a sport event, you are supposed to try your best to get the best result you can achieve.

If you know, before you even hit the track for the first practice session, that you will not run or even try to run more than 10 laps into the race, then this is not what you or anyone else can call 'doing your best'. This not what can be called 'sport'.

If you don't have the skill or money to enter a national event, then you should drop down to a lighter series.

Period.

 

[MattSRD28]

For S&P's to be outlawed, there would have to be additional wording requiring having the necessary equipment and supplies to run the full race before the green flag.

As it is right now, S&P's are legal within this wording.

 

[RP Motorsports]

They can't even run but 50 laps 90% of the time. That is not even one pit stop during the race. Not trying to sound snotty because I completely understand what your saying, but do they REALLY run as much as they can or just pick up the finishing money as it is. I'm not an owner of a team but I don't see a reason why they can't buy another set of tires. Shoot, they can even go ask bigger teams to lend them their used scuffs. There is no way in the world that they can't find anybody that will work for free on a NASCAR team that actually has some experience because I sure as heck would. All in all it would be nice to see these guys run longer to what they are REALLY capable of.

Buying one set of tires instead of zero isnt going to make much difference in the end. They might finish a position or two higher, which is worth a little more money (relatively speaking), but not really worth the risk of tearing up the car or breaking something. They have to park it early regardless, so making two runs instead of one just isnt real practical. And they cant get tires from other teams, as its against the rules.

As far as a crew goes, you're not going to find capable crew members who will work for free. Plus, who's going to pay for their room and board and/or plane ticket? All of these things add up. I think a lot of people dont realize just how costly it is to run a full race. Preparing a car capable of running a whole race (which includes leasing a $50k motor), buying enough sets of tires to run the whole race (roughly at least 8-10 sets at $1400 per set), hiring a crew to pit and work on the car, paying room and board for everyone, paying entry fees, paying travel/fuel costs to get to the track, and the list goes on and on and on.

At the end of the day, in the rare occasion they are able to run a full race, they're probably going to be running around 15 laps down and considerably off the pace anyways, so you're not really missing anything. You wouldnt even know they're out there running, except for an occasional instance of seeing them get lapped.

When you enter a sport event, you are supposed to try your best to get the best result you can achieve.

If you know, before you even hit the track for the first practice session, that you will not run or even try to run more than 10 laps into the race, then this is not what you or anyone else can call 'doing your best'. This not what can be called 'sport'.

If you don't have the skill or money to enter a national event, then you should drop down to a lighter series.

Period.

They are trying their best. You cant spend money you dont have. If you go to the store to buy a $20 hat, but you only have $10 dollars on you, then you cant buy it. Its the same deal, and really as simple as that.

As far as not entering a race you dont have the money to complete, it provides an opportunity to start a race team without major funding/investors (which are hard to come by in this economy). Thats a good thing. Purses are significantly less in the lower series, so its not really feasible to do it there.

In the end, these teams want to run the full race and compete. They just literally dont have the funds to do it, so they try to show up each week and qualify the car on a shoestring budget, in hopes that it will attract potential sponsors. It obviously can be a longer/tedious process than the conventional way, but its very hard to find major funding now-a-days, especially for a start-up team. This process gives owners the opportunity to start a team from the ground up, grassroots style. More teams is always a good thing.

Tommy Baldwin Racing is a perfect example. He bought a turn-key car with his own money and started with nothing. Through working the S&P method, he's now built up a two-car team that continues to grow and expand. Frankly, I think that should be applauded and encouraged. Again, more teams is never a bad thing. And as I said above, you're not really missing anything because of the S&P teams. Whether they run around 15 laps down off the pace, or they park it early, you hardly even know they're there. So its not like it affects the quality of the race or anything like that.

 

[bsoyuz]

So this means every car will have cameras on the drivers pedals to see if he is only using half throttle and riding the brake? "sandbag cams"

One of the best ideas, also an "helmet cam" watching the steering wheel.

 

[vozdt24]

The next biggest issue this will be is the Duels @ Daytona.

Every year teams work together to drop positions or whatever so their team mates can get into the race.

Usually the front row qualifiers will drop to the back and just drive around.

Wait, makes me think of something else. What about the drivers that "drop back" at Superspeedway races? Will this be allowed anymore?

Dropping back at the plate tracks isn't manipulating the finish. Normally the guys who drop back at the plate races are back in the mix after the big one. They give a 100% effort to get the best position they are capable of getting. It's just part of their equipment management strategy for the race. No different than sandbagging to save fuel.

As far as the exhibition races, those are non-points; rules have always been different there. When the pole and outside pole sitter drop back and be a non factor, they're not influencing the outcome of the race or the outcome of the Daytona 500 in the sense that the finish was influenced at Richmond. The cars in row 1 start in row 1 no matter what. So whether they win their respective events or whether they park it 2 laps into it. The remaining line up of the 500 is still developed by the finishing positions of all the competitors not in row 1.

 

[Markfan]

Dropping back at the plate tracks isn't manipulating the finish. Normally the guys who drop back at the plate races are back in the mix after the big one.

An example of what he means is presumably like how Brian Keselowski was literally pushed by Brad into the Daytona 500 a few seasons ago, despite having a horrible car.