Phoenix Racing Closing Up Shop

[MattSRD28]

He said the COT would cause him to go out of business...it didn't.


He said losing Miccosukee sponsorship abruptly would cause him to go out of business... it didn't.


He said his Nationwide team would shut down after Jeff Purvis and Kodak left...it didn't.



He said his Nationwide team would shut down after Randy LaJoie and Bob Evans Restaurants left... it didn't.


He said his Nationwide team would shut down after James Buescher left... it didn't.




He said the Gen6 car would be the end of his team and many like his... it wasn't.



At one point, you really have to wonder if you can believe anything the guy says. Construction companies have a well-earned reputation for manipulation and exaggerating potentially negative outcomes to different things, and Finch is exhibiting this. If he wants to shut down and retire, it's up to him, but I'm getting tired of hearing about it.

 

[Carl Robinson]

something tells me he's picky about the sponsorship deals he entertains. i suspect he's looking to be funded at the 20-25 mil a year the top teams command. he may be getting a lot of low ball offers that do nothing to grow the team.


i say beggars can't be choosers.
a bill paid is a bill paid.

I seriously doubt that.

 

[Cody Ficker]

I seriously doubt that.

According to Kurt Busch in 'The Outlaw', Finch was seriously picky when it came to sponsors. A lot of companies came forward wanting to put their message on the 51 but Finch said no hoping that a bigger sponsor would come along.

 

[88 17 6 fan]

Even the big teams are signing one race deals constantly, he expects a damn miracle

 

[Carl Robinson]

According to Kurt Busch in 'The Outlaw', Finch was seriously picky when it came to sponsors. A lot of companies came forward wanting to put their message on the 51 but Finch said no hoping that a bigger sponsor would come along.

Or you know it could have been the fact that it was Kurt driving the car and he new Kurt has some serious monetary potential. F Bomb or not.

Even the big teams are signing one race deals constantly, he expects a damn miracle

I dont think he expects a miracle. But he expects a fair chance his talent pool the last two years well shit this year and last. Are the highest james has ever had. So I mean why shouldnt he be a bit upset that he still cant find someone to help even a little bit.

 

[RP Motorsports]

Construction companies have a well-earned reputation for manipulation and exaggerating potentially negative outcomes to different things, and Finch is exhibiting this.

Thats quite the generalization to make. Thats like saying NASCAR fans have a well-earned reputation for being a bunch of beer-drinking rednecks. Some are, some arent, but you cant put them all in the same box.

As it pertains to Finch specifically, maybe he has been seriously considering shutting down on several different occasions, but just cant quite bring himself to flip the breakers. I'm not necessarily saying I think thats the case, but its certainly possible. Its not easy walking away from something you love. Maybe he keeps telling himself that at a certain point he cant keep hemorrhaging money, but when that point comes, he caves and breaks out the checkbook.

I just personally dont think its very fair to call him a liar without knowing any specifics of his situation (or to say that all construction companies are manipulators, so thats what Finch is doing). I just dont see any merit there whatsoever.

 

[MattSRD28]

Thats quite the generalization to make. Thats like saying NASCAR fans have a well-earned reputation for being a bunch of beer-drinking rednecks. Some are, some arent, but you cant put them all in the same box.

Not generalizing anyone here. Just saying there's a stereotype and Finch's words and actions are aligning themselves with the stereotype, and that's not a good thing.

I just personally dont think its very fair to call him a liar without knowing any specifics of his situation (or to say that all construction companies are manipulators, so thats what Finch is doing). I just dont see any merit there whatsoever.

Also never called anyone a liar. You might want to make sure I actually say these things before you accuse me of saying them. I said Finch was being manipulative and exaggerating potential negative outcomes of different circumstances, and I gave numerous examples demonstrating this.

 

[RP Motorsports]

Not generalizing anyone here. Just saying there's a stereotype and Finch's words and actions are aligning themselves with the stereotype, and that's not a good thing.

I personally dont believe that to be accurate at all, but thats neither here nor there.

Also never called anyone a liar. You might want to make sure I actually say these things before you accuse me of saying them. I said Finch was being manipulative and exaggerating potential negative outcomes of different circumstances, and I gave numerous examples demonstrating this.

You're right, you didnt specifically call him a "liar" per say, but you're saying he's being manipulative and exaggerating circumstances in statements he has made, which implies he's not being truthful (and therefore lying). But you, nor I, nor anyone else here, know any specifics whatsoever regarding his team, his financial situation, or even his intentions for that matter.

Its one thing to say "I dont believe anything he says", but its a whole different deal to accuse him of being manipulative and/or deceptive, with nothing adequate to substantiate it. Just because he's made statements saying he doesnt think he can continue any longer, and then ends up continuing, it doesnt automatically mean he's blowing smoke or working some hidden agenda. Theres a myriad of different reasons that could be responsible, or have contributed, to him not shutting down after stating he may have to.

As I said before, it could be something as simple as him caving and not being able to pull the trigger. Its like the several times I've been walking into a store with my little girl and specifically said "we're not buying anything" (as in toys, candy, etc...), and then by the time we're walking out, she has a new doll or a pack of reece's. I wasnt being untruthful when I said it, and I had every intention of sticking to my word, but when that moment came, I gave in.

Thats mainly what I'm getting at. I just think its a little presumptuous to throw those accusations his way with no knowledge on the situation whatsoever, and no substance other than a perceived stereotype pertaining to a profession with a very broad field, in which he owns a company. Its just not very fair in my opinion.

 

[MattSRD28]

Its one thing to say "I dont believe anything he says", but its a whole different deal to accuse him of being manipulative and/or deceptive, with nothing adequate to substantiate it.

No idea at all why you're continuing this pointless game of semantics. For someone to say "I don't believe anything he says" (which, again I did not actually say) they must first have motive to suspect there isn't 100% truthfulness going on. You can call that an accusation of being deceptive, but that's wrong and it's not how the English language works at all.

I just think its a little presumptuous to throw those accusations his way with no knowledge on the situation whatsoever

First, no accusations were thrown, and I have knowledge of the situation that I demonstrated in my post.

I don't know what game you're trying to play here RP but it needs to stop. There's zero substance behind your claims against what I've said, and the subsequent back & forth adds nothing to the discussion. Move on.

 

[ayrwolf]

He said the COT would cause him to go out of business...it didn't.


He said losing Miccosukee sponsorship abruptly would cause him to go out of business... it didn't.


He said his Nationwide team would shut down after Jeff Purvis and Kodak left...it didn't.



He said his Nationwide team would shut down after Randy LaJoie and Bob Evans Restaurants left... it didn't.


He said his Nationwide team would shut down after James Buescher left... it didn't.




He said the Gen6 car would be the end of his team and many like his... it wasn't.



At least he is more consistant than NASCAR

 

[B.McKeever]

The little reminder at the top says I need to post in the forums, this seems fitting place to do this.

I have to say, I'm with RP 100% on this, even though we've butted heads before, he makes very good points.

(Post. Now I can go into hiding for another month+ until it says I need to post again.)

 

[RP Motorsports]

No idea at all why you're continuing this pointless game of semantics. For someone to say "I don't believe anything he says" (which, again I did not actually say) they must first have motive to suspect there isn't 100% truthfulness going on. You can call that an accusation of being deceptive, but that's wrong and it's not how the English language works at all.


First, no accusations were thrown, and I have knowledge of the situation that I demonstrated in my post.

I don't know what game you're trying to play here RP but it needs to stop. There's zero substance behind your claims against what I've said, and the subsequent back & forth adds nothing to the discussion. Move on.

Not trying to play any games here. Just stating my opinion that happens to oppose yours. Its your opinion he's being manipulative based on statements he made, and in my opinion, I dont think thats a fair assertion with what little we know about the situation. Thats all.

We can agree to disagree, its all good. Nothing wrong with differing opinions. I always enjoy a good discussion or debate, and if you ever feel its time to move on, I'm good with it. But please dont accuse me of playing games. Just trying to have a discussion and support my position.

 

[MattSRD28]

Just stating my opinion that happens to oppose yours. We can agree to disagree, its all good.

No. This isn't a case of differing opinions. You're claiming that I made statements and accusations that I didn't make. You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to make false claims on what I said. Such action runs contrary to the good discussion/debate you say you enjoy.

Next time you may want to simply stick to your opinions.

Now it's time for everyone to simply move on. Let's not be like Finch and say we're going to move on, but then never actually move on.