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Sandbox 2

Discussion in 'NR2003 General Discussion' started by TChapman500, Aug 4, 2018.

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Grip Level Support

  1. All configurations have same grip levels.

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. Per-configuration grip levels.

    10 vote(s)
    76.9%
  1. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Still not taking any chances.
     
  2. mtblillie

    mtblillie It's MTB Lillie, not MT Billy

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    This reminds me of those "Facebook will delete your account if you don't share this post" posts.
     
  3. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Cracked the section texture mappings structure! Sort of. I know what the numbers mean. But there's still a lot of unknowns after it. I have a theory on what some of those unknowns are, but nothing concrete.
     
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  4. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I've figured out the F Sections. The file structure looks like it's just asking to be experimented with. It looks like the PTF file has some features that Papyrus didn't implement in the original Sandbox. To summarize, I have the following PTF file structures figured-out:
    Track Lighting
    Bump Map Definitions
    3DO References
    Track Surface Decals
    Segments (Partially)
    X Sections
    F Sections

    I need to figure out the following:
    W Sections
    BM Sections
    BS Sections

    That's basically all that's defined in the PTF file. Now if only the HEX Editor that I use would properly handle if statements in the structure definition files, it would greatly reduce the time it takes for me to parse these files.
     
  5. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    The original Sandbox will crash if you try to place more than 16 X Sections on a single segment. So that gives me an idea for an experimental feature for Sandbox 2. Question: How many X Sections can be on a single segment before NR2003 fails to load the track?
     
    USSTalladega likes this.
  6. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    I discovered the other day that if you "Copy Features" to another segment, if the sections at the opposite end of the segment are close enough to the sections on the next segment, then the copied sections will be moved to snap to the sections of the next segment. Can be convenient when trying to copy large sections of track. But what if you're trying to completely override that segment of track? You have to delete large portions of the track you're copying to (without accidentally deleting the segment), then do the copy.

    Also, Sandbox doesn't have a way to lock segments so that you can delete only sections without having to worry about deleting segments. The closest it comes is preventing X Sections from being deleted, which also prevents segments from being deleted. I think I'll change that in Sandbox 2.
     
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  7. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Just added a couple lines of code to stop the grid from reducing it's scale beyond the base scale. You'll know know when the grid is at its original scale when it stops changing its scale as you zoom in. It's also a good calibration point for the grid as it clears all floating point errors when it gets to the base scale. Working on implementing segments.
     
  8. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    For some reason, I can't test segment rendering when there's no way to put a segment in the scene. So I'm working on the segment menus now. I suppose I should also work on the shaders for segment rendering. Shouldn't be too hard to do. Just 4 vertex shaders. One for the start/finish line marker, one for the arrow indicating the direction of travel, and one for each type of segment.
     
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  9. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Question: Should the track editor give per-configuration grip levels or have global grip levels for the all of the track's configurations?
     
  10. J.R.Franklin

    J.R.Franklin Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to need more clarification here in order to give you some feedback for your question. I've been around Sandbox making tracks since that application was released, but I'm confused about what you are asking here. What do you mean by "per-configuration" as opposed to all configurations? And "global grip levels"? I guess technically you're speaking in terms above my pay grade. ;)

    When I make a track in Sandbox it has only one configuration. For example a 1/2 mile oval. That is the only configuration it will have. As for global grip levels, does that mean that we will not be able to assign different grip levels for different surfaces? Many tracks have asphalt grip on the bottom groove and then a middle and outside groove assigned as concrete (with perhaps the same asphalt texture as the bottom groove) that can have a higher grip level as set in the track.ini. This was the concept introduced originally by Brian Ring in his "BR" tracks.
     
    Mystical likes this.
  11. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    In Sandbox 2, the grip levels for each material will be assigned independently within the editor itself (eg: concrete gets one value, asphalt gets a different value). Global grip levels just means that all configurations share the grip level properties. The materials' grip levels are still set independently. And this will not affect tracks with just one configuration. It would affect tracks like Charlotte which has oval and roval configurations available.
     
  12. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Got all my structure files up to date and in one place now (in my local sandbox directory). Should come in handy when trying to create the read and write code for these files. Also, since the 3DO and PTF files are essentially the same thing, I'll just put the PTF read/write code with the 3DO read/write code.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
    Skyline, J.R.Franklin and Mystical like this.
  13. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Playing around in Sandbox again to test-out the behavior. Found that if you have a straight segment with a section more than 100m left of the center line, appending or prepending a curve will move those sections over and completely mess-up both segments. I don't think I like that. So I'm going to make my version that it can get a curve with a 100m radius. And if it can't it'll create a segment with a radius as small as it can. That way, nothing gets messed-up.
     
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  14. halfwayglad

    halfwayglad BBMC Tracks

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    I don't know what this means, but it sounds good! :p
     
  15. J.R.Franklin

    J.R.Franklin Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Sections and Segments within those Sections... oftentimes when I'm making a track I come across the problem of not being able to save a current build because I have created too many f-sections within a given segment. This causes me to go back and try to find an f-section within that segment that is a less important that I can eliminate in order to install the f-section I'm trying to install and be able to perform a save. That can be a difficult decision deciding which f-section to eliminate. Because this sim requires you to have to manually put in shading and shadowing on surfaces in Sandbox, you end up having to install additional f-sections in order to do this. It's so frustrating when you are on the home stretch of creating a track and are in the shadowing and shading phase and come up against the problem of not being able to add an additional f-section because Sandbox alerts you that you already are at your limit for that given section of the track.

    I've never experienced a case where I have tried to add too many w-sections and/or x-sections and have Sandbox display a popup box that informs me that I have too many. Also, I can't remember if the total of f-sections, w-sections and x-sections within a given segment are a cumulative total where Sandbox will alert you that you have too many in that segment. In other words, let's say that the total is 16 sections allowed for a given segment. Does that mean any combination of f, w and x-sections totaling 16 is the most that Sandbox will allow? Or is it 16 f-sections, 16 w-sections and 16 x-sections in a given section is the most Sandbox will allow?

    I can't remember how many f-sections that Sandbox will allow you to put within a given segment, but it sure would be nice if you could expand that amount in your new version. (Adding the ability to add more w-sections and x-sections would be less of a priority in my opinion.)

    Thanks for your hard work on this project. Your efforts will help all of us build better tracks with greater ease with a more stable program. That will keep this awesome sim rolling for many more years to come.
     
    TChapman500 and Mystical like this.
  16. Rufio2031

    Rufio2031 BBMC Tracks

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    I believe each section type has it's own limit, and I do believe you are right that that limit is 16. So you could have both 16 F-Sections, and 16 X-Sections. If I remember correctly, going over the limit for F-Sections gives you a warning, too many X-Sections crashes the application on save, at least for me.
     
    J.R.Franklin likes this.
  17. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    F Section limit is 21. W Section limit is 10. X Section limit is 16. You can exceed the F and W section limits without any problems until you try to save the track. If you try to place a 17th X Section on a segment, Sandbox crashes immediately. I've already tested this and I'm going to use Sandbox 2 to do some experiments with NR2003. Then I'll decide if I need to warn developers that their tracks exceed the limits. But if I do, then I'll have the editor tell the user which segments exceed these limits and by how much.
     
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  18. J.R.Franklin

    J.R.Franklin Well-Known Member

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    Excellent info. Thank you. To my question, is it possible for you to increase the amount of F-Sections per segment in your new Sandbox 2? Perhaps up to 25?
     
  19. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on NR2003's reaction to the race track. If NR2003 accepts the track, I'll increase the section limits to whatever I've tested it to. Also, you shouldn't need extra F Sections for the shadow mappings if the maps are made correctly.
     
  20. TChapman500

    TChapman500 Well-Known Member

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    Segment creation and modification is once again ready for testing. What's not ready is the rendering system. Also, appending segments is also ready for testing. But I need to implement the code to allow the user to create a segment, or to select a segment to append another segment to. I'll have to do that another time though. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. I'll also need to implement a system that keeps track of which segments can be selected, but that can be done later. For now, I'll just iterate through all of the segments in the scene and select the first one that the mouse is over.
     
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