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[Teaser] Daytona 2020 BBMC Day & Night

Rufio2031

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One thing is for sure, you can rarely, if ever, see stars, let alone the moon if it's out. I've been to many night races (Daytona, Homestead, Richmond and many short tracks) and @MattyO is 100% right.... at night races the sky above is pitch black. At the high level NASCAR Cup tracks, the power of these bright MUSCO lighting systems pretty much dominates the entire environment.
This is basically my take as well. To be clear we both are on board with the dark skies, it's more about the on track lightmaps that we go back and forth on. I have faith in those MUSCO lights and believe they actually light the place up pretty damn well, and thus, I generally like the track and asphalt a little lighter than @halfwayglad prefers, and vice verse when he wants to create the night time feel.

I am in the cockpit 99% of the time and to be honest I don't even notice most the stuff we do on these tracks. Again it's kind of the mixed interests we have as a team. I'm a racer, a competitor. That track surface is my Mona Lisa. The AI are my children. I notice the slightest hitches and bumps in every square inch of that damn track. Halfway is the art guy. He'll notice the slightest error in a 3do or texture that I never even knew existed. He knows how to make things look good and closer to photorealistic (I know, NR2003 won't ever be photorealistic). This means we usually worry about things like skies and higher res textures because they make the scene look good. You know, when you're sitting there wrecked on the backstretch waiting for the tow truck, we want you to be able to enjoy the view.

I think we're aware that a lot of what we do probably doesn't matter, but we enjoy doing the best we can with what we've got. Anything less feels like a missed opportunity.

As for the Day to Night transitions, we kind of decided long ago we wouldn't delve into that for two reasons.
  1. The amount of work, disk space, and memory to transition all of our textures and 3do's properly would be insane.
  2. The DtN transition skybox really closes the world off, like you're in a little snow globe.
 

J.R.Franklin

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As for the Day to Night transitions, we kind of decided long ago we wouldn't delve into that for two reasons.
  1. The amount of work, disk space, and memory to transition all of our textures and 3do's properly would be insane.
  2. The DtN transition skybox really closes the world off, like you're in a little snow globe.
Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough.... I don't have day-to-night transitions in our PST tracks. What we have is "session" progressive skies. In practice there is a sunset sky. Then in the qualifying session, it changes to a sightly darker, Happy Hour changes to a slightly darker still, then in the Race session it changes to a full dark night sky. Some of those Race session skies are slightly varied in darkness as I mentioned above.

I can definitely relate to the "art"aspect and attention to detail that Halfway obsesses over. I'm the same way. Heck, it's all I can do to keep my sanity obsessively detailing objects and stuff for our PST tracks as it is. I could never go through the work involved in making a DTN track for all of the reasons you've mentioned. I saw what work my partner Ian Smythe (aka Smiffsden) went through on the DTN tracks we released previously at SDT.

Like you, it's all about the immersion factor, because whether we "think" we are paying attention to every little detail or not while we're driving, believe me we all notice the difference between one of your BBMC tracks and others of lesser detail.

And not to hijack this thread any further. As we have discussed before, making a good and realistic nighttime environment in NR2003 is very very difficult and time consuming... and practically impossible. I've managed to capture it a few times with some of our PST night tracks. The best we can hope for without driving ourselves nuts in the process is to achieve something pretty close.
 

Rufio2031

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Interesting. Yeah I'll have to take a look. I was just flying around PST Stafford last night admiring the detail :)
 

halfwayglad

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In practice there is a sunset sky. Then in the qualifying session, it changes to a sightly darker, Happy Hour changes to a slightly darker still, then in the Race session it changes to a full dark night sky.
I like this idea. The tricky thing is much of our shading is tied to a specific look (e.g. post-sunset) so we wouldn't necessarily be able to switch session to session. With such a limited engine, you either go all in on creating a strong sense of time, or you generalize everything so it always looks not quite right.
 

XxTeam48LowesXx

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Ha yeah. I just needed to test the sky. I would not ship a night track with this :p
Should just be required to have rain and lightning in the background like this year :p

First thing ill do is add some stormy skies for sure when this comes out
 
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J.R.Franklin

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I like this idea. The tricky thing is much of our shading is tied to a specific look (e.g. post-sunset) so we wouldn't necessarily be able to switch session to session. With such a limited engine, you either go all in on creating a strong sense of time, or you generalize everything so it always looks not quite right.
Yes, that is the compromise I had to make when using the session progressive skies. The overall environment is perhaps too dark during the sunset sessions (practice, qualifying and HH), but is shaded about accurately for the full night race session. NR2003 causes you to make many concessions you really don't want to make. But all in all, the darkness of the overall environment in those sunset sessions is not too out of sorts to ruin the effect. Anyway, it seems like you guys have a plan in mind for Daytona which I'm very confident will be spectacular. The community is very much in need of an "exceptional" graphically updated Daytona.
 
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Matt Baker

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This is basically my take as well. To be clear we both are on board with the dark skies, it's more about the on track lightmaps that we go back and forth on. I have faith in those MUSCO lights and believe they actually light the place up pretty damn well, and thus, I generally like the track and asphalt a little lighter than @halfwayglad prefers, and vice verse when he wants to create the night time feel.

I am in the cockpit 99% of the time and to be honest I don't even notice most the stuff we do on these tracks. Again it's kind of the mixed interests we have as a team. I'm a racer, a competitor. That track surface is my Mona Lisa. The AI are my children. I notice the slightest hitches and bumps in every square inch of that damn track. Halfway is the art guy. He'll notice the slightest error in a 3do or texture that I never even knew existed. He knows how to make things look good and closer to photorealistic (I know, NR2003 won't ever be photorealistic). This means we usually worry about things like skies and higher res textures because they make the scene look good. You know, when you're sitting there wrecked on the backstretch waiting for the tow truck, we want you to be able to enjoy the view.

I think we're aware that a lot of what we do probably doesn't matter, but we enjoy doing the best we can with what we've got. Anything less feels like a missed opportunity.

As for the Day to Night transitions, we kind of decided long ago we wouldn't delve into that for two reasons.
  1. The amount of work, disk space, and memory to transition all of our textures and 3do's properly would be insane.
  2. The DtN transition skybox really closes the world off, like you're in a little snow globe.
You both sound like me when I make a track. Know every part of the surface. Where things aren't 100%, but realize that no one else will notice.
You both do an unbelievable job! Thank you guys very much :).
 

Wheatenland

FSE Tracks
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Guys the workmanship looks awesome!
At the Daytona track I'm really thinking with the size and how much you see of the sky when driving the evening shots have a much better view than just looking at black sky. The Charlotte Track has enough grandstands and billboards factor in the track being smaller it can pull off a black sky, Daytona really needs the evening sky to keep the realistic look in prospective.

Also, lighting effects on the track has as much to do with the realistic feel as the graphics. Your Charlotte track has a nice lighting look and feel, I hate to say anything negative about others work because I know personally how much time is put into building tracks but, your Bristol night track really needs some adjustments. It's a bit dark in the track area (driving surface and walls), the grandstands are fine but the track has some odd light flashes and overall it's to dark. There something not right on lighting effects. Again, I have much appreciation for all the hard work you guys do.

My vote is keep Daytona as a evening sky event.(like the pictures you guys have posted)..Nice work

Thanks,
Freddy
FSE Tracks
 
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