Top 35 Watch

[MattSRD28]

There are a ton of complaints about the top 35 being unfair, and the fastest cars not being in the race, yadda yadda. So I thought it would be fun to look at qualifying results week to week & see just who DNQ'd that was one of the 43 fastest cars, just to see how much things would change.

Keep in mind the top-35 rule is there to reward the most consistent 35 teams and give their sponsors assuredness of being in each race week-to-week. This allows the teams to sell that assuredness as part of a sponsorship package, and that is a huge value to the sponsors. As per the rule, if a team falls out of the top 35 in owners' points, that team no longer enjoys the reward. A past Cup Champion's team also enjoys this reward when/if they enter a race, and has not needed a 'Champion's Provisional' more than 6 times previously in the season.

So any team not in the top-35 in points enters each race knowing that only 8 teams at most can make the race regardless of how many enter. They must be one of the top 8 in that 'class,' which this year has been 14-19 teams per week, in order to make the show. How those teams measure up against the top-35 teams matters only in terms of positioning; it's otherwise irrelevant. So if in qualifying, teams P1-P8 are out of the top 35 and you qualify 9th, you DNQ. Sorry, but, that team obviously hasn't entered as many races or has not performed consistently well enough to make the race. In NASCAR, consistency is & has always been the key, and consistency is what the top 35 rule rewards

Some call this possibility unfair, and wish the top-35 rule was thrown out in favor of a 43-fastest rule. So I'm going to keep a watch here just to see how things would change if the 43 fastest did make each race. Not to prove any point or argument that I have, but just to see what would happen so we all can make our own conclusions and opinions.

So without further adieu, here's what this week's Bank of America 500 comparison looks like...

Lineup with top-35 rule
1) 12 Ryan Newman-28.512
2) 48 Jimmie Johnson-28.573
3) 43 Bobby Labonte-28.668
4) 24 Jeff Gordon-28.678
5) 9 Kasey Kahne-28.710
6) 26 Jamie McMurray-28.712
7) 17 Matt Kenseth-28.721
8) 2 Kurt Busch-28.739
9) 25 Casey Mears-28.746
10) 16 Greg Biffle-28.787
11) 11 Denny Hamlin-28.815
12) 01 Mark Martin-28.844
13) 5 Kyle Busch-28.848
14) 10 Scott Riggs-28.865
15) 4 Ward Burton-28.890
16) 19 Elliott Sadler-28.895
17) 15 Paul Menard-28.895
18) 99 Carl Edwards-28.905
19) 55 Michael Waltrip-28.914
20) 00 David Reutimann-28.916
21) 38 David Gilliland-28.923
22) 8 Dale Earnhardt Jr.-28.952
23) 70 Johnny Sauter-28.958
24) 29 Kevin Harvick-28.967
25) 07 Clint Bowyer-28.974
26) 41 Reed Sorenson-28.982
27) 31 Jeff Burton-29.009
28) 40 David Stremme-29.027
29) 20 Tony Stewart-29.057
30) 84 AJ Allmendinger-29.074
31) 6 David Ragan-29.079
32) 1 Martin Truex Jr.-29.089
33) 88 Ricky Rudd-29.112
34) 22 Dave Blaney-29.118
35) 21 Bill Elliott-29.121
36) 42 Juan Pablo Montoya-29.122
37) 66 Jeff Green-29.207
38) 36 Jeremy Mayfield-29.241
39) 18 J.J. Yeley-29.248
40) 7 Robby Gordon-29.259
41) 96 Tony Raines-29.368
42) 45 Kyle Petty-29.409
43) 49 John Andretti-29.267
DNQ) 44 Dale Jarrett -29.289
DNQ) 78 Joe Nemechek-29.324
DNQ) 83 Brian Vickers-29.362
DNQ) 06 Sam Hornish-29.427
DNQ) 08 Carl Long-29.686
DNQ) 27 Kirk Shelmerdine-31.021

Lime - indicates team out of top 35 in points that made the race as one of 43 fastest
Red - indicates team in top 35 that made the race NOT as one of the 43 fastest

Lineup according to 43 fastest
1) 12 Ryan Newman-28.512
2) 48 Jimmie Johnson-28.573
3) 43 Bobby Labonte-28.668
4) 24 Jeff Gordon-28.678
5) 9 Kasey Kahne-28.710
6) 26 Jamie McMurray-28.712
7) 17 Matt Kenseth-28.721
8) 2 Kurt Busch-28.739
9) 25 Casey Mears-28.746
10) 16 Greg Biffle-28.787
11) 11 Denny Hamlin-28.815
12) 01 Mark Martin-28.844
13) 5 Kyle Busch-28.848
14) 10 Scott Riggs-28.865
15) 4 Ward Burton-28.890
16) 19 Elliott Sadler-28.895
17) 15 Paul Menard-28.895
18) 99 Carl Edwards-28.905
19) 55 Michael Waltrip-28.914
20) 00 David Reutimann-28.916
21) 38 David Gilliland-28.923
22) 8 Dale Earnhardt Jr.-28.952
23) 70 Johnny Sauter-28.958
24) 29 Kevin Harvick-28.967
25) 07 Clint Bowyer-28.974
26) 41 Reed Sorenson-28.982
27) 31 Jeff Burton-29.009
28) 40 David Stremme-29.027
29) 20 Tony Stewart-29.057
30) 84 AJ Allmendinger-29.074
31) 6 David Ragan-29.079
32) 1 Martin Truex Jr.-29.089
33) 88 Ricky Rudd-29.112
34) 22 Dave Blaney-29.118
35) 21 Bill Elliott-29.121
36) 42 Juan Pablo Montoya-29.122
37) 66 Jeff Green-29.207
38) 36 Jeremy Mayfield-29.241
39) 18 J.J. Yeley-29.248
40) 7 Robby Gordon-29.259
41) 49 John Andretti-29.267
42) 44 Dale Jarrett -29.289
43) 78 Joe Nemechek-29.324
DNQ) 83 Brian Vickers-29.362
DNQ) 96 Tony Raines-29.368
DNQ) 45 Kyle Petty-29.409
DNQ) 06 Sam Hornish-29.427
DNQ) 08 Carl Long-29.686
DNQ) 27 Kirk Shelmerdine-31.021

Lime-indicates team not in top 35, but in fastest 43
Red-indicates team in top 35, but not in fastest 43

So, looks like this week the Top-35 Rule affected 4 teams. #96 & #45 made the race because they were in the top 35 in points. #44 and #78 were forced to go home because, though they were in the fastest 43, they were not in the top 35. #83, #06, #08 and #27 were DNQ either way.

There ya have it. Feel free to post thoughts & opinions, good or bad about Top 35. We'll see what happens next week on the short track!

-- DF28

 

[Batman1138]

I do think we need a change, but what? I'm working on one......I hope. I'm having trouble typing.

 

[Mike24]

Something definitely needs to be done. When you're tenth fastest like Boris was at 'Dega and you're going home, something is not right.

 

[Batman1138]

but once the Chase starts you've got to make sure the Chasers are all Chasing on Sunday. If not, then the championship could be decided on Friday and that would suck.

 

[Mike24]

It's a touchy subject, because there are many agendas to answer to. I think the best way would be to go back to a modified version of the old provisional system. Everyone in the top 15 is guaranteed a spot. The top 40 are set by speed, and the remaining three spots go either top 15 teams that need it, or to the remaining teams, based on where they stand in the owner's standings. Oh, and no champion's provisional. This would eliminate the ridiculousness that is Terry Labonte starting 6 races to secure HOF in '06, and Jarrett starting 5 races next year to get the 44 team going.

 

[MattSRD28]

Well I've always been in favor of the Champion's Provisional because most of the time it gives the past Champion a spot in the field that otherwise would have gone to a limited schedule team. Now with all the new Toyota teams and the expansion of others, the Champ gets in at the expense of a team like Furniture Row, Red Bull, BAM or Morgan McClure.

Now the Champ in question isn't stupid. They know when a team is using them simply for their champion's provisional, and really, the choice is their's.

NASCAR put that rule in to ensure the best drivers make each race. Maybe Dale Jarrett didn't outqualify Joe Nemechek, but Nemechek's no past champion, so Jarrett gets the nod if those 2 are going for 1 open spot. It's another rule that is there so when push comes to shove, consistency is awarded.

So I like the Champion's Prov. and I also like how they put a cap on it at, I believe, 6 uses. Champ's Prov. is meant to be a once-in-a-while just-in-case thing, not an every race thing.

All that being said, I will take it into account in my observations here.

-- DF28

 

[Batman1138]

instead of limiting the champion's provisional to 6, I think it should be once every 6 races. I think that's how the busch series uses it.

 

[scottw73]

They need to bring back 2nd round qualifying. Give these guys a chance to work on their cars and take another crack at it. They could squeeze in an hour or 2 before the race or "happy hour"

 

[Batman1138]

They need to bring back 2nd round qualifying.

No, second round qualifiying isn't a good idea. I think nobody should be locked in. 6 provisionals per team. 8 for past champions for the season would be the way to go. But if I knew what I was talking about I'd be where Brian France was. So....yeah.

 

[Mike24]

But if I knew what I was talking about I'd be where Brian France was.

No...no...I don't even think Brian France knows what Brian France is talking about...:nah:

 

[Batman1138]

I disagree with that to. As long as the sport is still running and expanding (which it is) he's doing a good job.

 

[scottw73]

How about this: Give all the cars the same setup (like they did in the IROC series), line them up on the track, and let them race for 10 laps, and take the 43 fastest times, basically let the chips lie where they fall, and no provisionals and abolish the top 35 rule

 

[Batman1138]

no because then you'll have guys taking other guys out so their teammates could get in or they could get in or to cause someone to loose points in the championship race.

They should just let all the go-or-go-homers go out first or last, by themselves of course, so they all have the same track conditions. Then let the top-35 guys qualify.

 

[scottw73]

I agree with that. maybe instead of top 35 make it top 40??

 

[Batman1138]

again, no. I don't want it to seem like I'm putting you down. Instead of expanding how many guys are locked in. shrink it. Maybe Top-25? or Top 30?

 

[scottw73]

again, no. I don't want it to seem like I'm putting you down. Instead of expanding how many guys are locked in. shrink it. Maybe Top-25? or Top 30?

no offense taken Firefly1138. If we knew what the solution to this was, one of us would be running NASCAR. Maybe someone should start a petition to NASCAR and call for a change to be made.

 

[Mike24]

So firefly, you're stance is essentially to keep everything the same, but to just shrink the nubmer of guaranteed spots...while that would lessen the effect of drivers missing that should have made the field, it does not eliminate the problem. Shrinking guaranteed spots to 30 or 25 is not enough. You need to shrink it to 10 or 15, and then, eliminate the championship provisional. This is necessary. If a past champion can't get inside the top 35, and isn't running full time, he should not get a spot over someone trying to get back into the top 35, and running full time. This would eliminate, as I stated before, the past champs getting rides to secure a car in the top-35 b.s. that NASCAR allows, inadvertantly. The top-35 rule needs to be altered drastically to allow the top to bottom competition to go up. Teams outside the top-35 need more track time to be on a level with the teams up through 20th place. Many can be on that level, and the top 35 rule inhibits that.

 

[Batman1138]

it's a really tough situation. I would hate to make the rules. What NASCAR doesn't want is to send guys like Kasey Kahne or Dale Jr home. Remember at the beginning of the season where they were like 36th or 40th in the standings? Hell I believe Martin Truex was farther back (and he made the Chase!). NASCAR wants their superstars in the show so they can put some butts in the seats at every track. It's a very tough situation. Fastest 43 wouldn't work because guys like Matt Kenseth and Jeff Burton have never been good qualifiers. And you want those guys in the field. This is my final idea and it was what I said before let all the go-or-go-homers qualify together so they equal track conditions.

 

[scottw73]

No matter what way you slice it, with 50+ teams showing up at the track week after week, there is just not enough room for everybody to race, unless NASCAR mandates that all tracks accomodate 50 cars on pit road and in the garage area that way everybody that shows up will be able to race

 

[MattSRD28]

Fastest 43 wouldn't work because guys like Matt Kenseth and Jeff Burton have never been good qualifiers. And you want those guys in the field. This is my final idea and it was what I said before let all the go-or-go-homers qualify together so they equal track conditions.

Well this is why I'm doing this comparison, just to see exactly what would happen. We're very good at rhetorical discussion over what might happen, but I want to see what does happen with this top-35 rule.

At Charlotte, we saw 2 teams that would have made the race (Jarrett & Nemechek) if the 43-fastest made up the field, told to go home because 2 teams that were in the top 35 (Petty & Raines) didn't quite qualify fast enough. My full comparison can be seen on the first page. We'll see more this week at Martinsville.

Frankly, there is no way to make it perfectly equal for everyone. If you have a knock-out qualfying round with the go-or-go-home'rs, then you'll hear complaints about how the lineup of that race is determined, and that the go-or-go-home'rs are at a disadvantage for having to race in an extra race that the top-35 teams don't have to use resources in running in.

My hope is once we have more hard information on what actually takes place in the current system, this discussion will have a lot more substance & merit to it.

-- DF28